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 1/15/2013 5:06 AM
 
This article was brought to my attention and so I thought I would go over and comment.

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/lisa-mcinerney-all-sexual-harassment-needs-to-thrive-is-for-good-men-to-do-nothing-750651-Jan2013/

New Post
 1/15/2013 5:06 AM
 


Lisa McInerney: All sexual harassment needs to thrive is for good men to do nothing

A new #shoutingback project on social media reveals lots of decent men are horrified by public harassment of women – none of us, men or women, should put up with it.

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Lisa McInerney

FLASHED BY A customer who couldn’t pass up the opportunity to whip out his genitals when there was a lone, nineteen-year-old barmaid on duty.

Felt up by male “friends” who thought the bar was too crowded for their actions to be noticed.

Called “fat” and “ugly” – and worse – by guys who didn’t appreciate that their space invasion hadn’t been welcomed with open arms and heaving cleavage.

Groped by a man on a dancefloor who thought it his right to shove his hands between the thighs of a girl he didn’t know.

Instances of sexual harassment, perpetrated in public. They’re all true, which I can vouch for because they’ve all happened to me. Want to know the really alarming thing? This isn’t even slightly unusual.

Last week, the Everyday Sexism project began the #shoutingback hashtag on Twitter and invited people to share their stories of being sexually harassed. While there were some male voices in the conversation reporting lewd comments and catcalls, those sharing were overwhelmingly female. What was most striking about the reaction to the hashtag was the tweets from male readers who were appalled and troubled by what they had read, with guys describing the outpouring of stories as “sobering” and “simply astonishing”.

“Culture of aggressive entitlement”

But if something is so prevalent a problem, how is it that many good men had no idea of its pervasiveness? Are they blind? Were the women taking part lying? Is all of this public harassment taking place in some parallel universe populated only by frightened females and sexual predators?

I’m not the only woman who was heartened by the amount of decent men who agree that street harassment isn’t acceptable, and that the culture of aggressive entitlement as perpetuated by belligerent antagonists and those who enable them needs to be challenged.

Women aren’t some sort of exotic quarry to be hunted down by straight men driven mad by their own hormones. A woman does not exist only for men to lay claim to her body, attention and the physical space she inhabits. I’m not suggesting that the problem of street harassment can only be solved by the gallantry of passing male heroes; just as women aren’t exotic quarry, men aren’t either dashing Errol Flynn caricatures or moustachioed villains with a penchant for tying distressed damsels to train tracks.

The question is not why these decent men haven’t saved women from street harassment, but why they were unaware of its existence.

It’s not as if decent men are merely paying lip service to the distress shared on #shoutingback.

“Difficult to be tuned into everything that’s going on around you”

I don’t believe that the men (and the few lucky women) who had no idea of the extent of this type of gender-directed violence are complicit. It is very difficult to be tuned into everything that’s going on around you if you’re not directly targeted, whether it’s frostiness between a couple in a restaurant, a person lost on a city street, or an individual being targeted by a group of caterwauling morons in a nightclub.

A major factor is that street harassment has (up to now, at least) been dismissed as a trifling issue and the price one pays for living in a society that occasionally loses the run of its manners. Women have long been advised to accept uninvited comments on their body, dress or comportment as ‘compliments’, no matter how vulgar or hostile.

So a builder wolf whistles at you. That’s what builders do, right? So a drunk presses his erection against you while you’re dancing with friends at a party. That’s what drunk people do, right? So a snarling man follows you down the road, threatening to rape you. Well… they’re only words. How self-conscious, ashamed or frightened the victim feels is irrelevant. The experience, and the right to that experience, belongs instead to the aggressor.

The mistaken belief is that this kind of harassment is a rite of passage, a necessary evil lurking in the supposed gap between the sexes, mere confusion as to what each gender deems appropriate in courtship displays. Speaking up equates to ‘making a fuss’, and attracts negative attention, firstly from the aggressor, and then from those who don’t like to hear shrill women commenting about anything more sophisticated than the art of sandwich-making.

“People don’t like to get involved”

Which leads neatly to the second reason all of these decent men are conspicuously absent during instances of street harassment: in many cases, people don’t like to get involved in what they hope is others’ business. If a bloke slyly gropes a woman’s breast as she tries to move past him in a crowd, it takes a lot of nerve to stick your head above the parapet and say, “That’s not on”.

Besides, what if you’re wrong? What if they actually know each other? What if she took it as a harmless bit of physical banter and has already forgotten about it? Unless the injured party is perceptibly injured, the safest thing to do is nothing at all.

And that’s not confined to sexual harassment. It is a difficult thing to get involved in any public incident, whether it’s challenging a leering toerag with busy hands, an angry girlfriend slapping her partner, or something as frightening as a mugging. Getting involved opens up the possibility of being attacked ourselves, and there is an unpredictability about street violence that cannot be ignored. I’m as concerned for my male friends walking alone at night as I am for my female friends.

“Too busy keeping their heads down”

Could it be that the many men horrified at the reports on #shoutingback are conditioned by fear of attack, and so are too busy keeping their heads down to notice the guy shouting abuse at a lone woman only a few metres further down the road, or the forty-something leering at the fourteen-year-old schoolgirl as she waits for her bus home?

Which directly contradicts that first point about street harassment being relatively innocuous.

If it’s a case that decent people are afraid of calling out instances of street harassment, doesn’t that mean that these actions are, unarguably, actions of intimidation, violence and control?

Whatever it is, it’s time for it to end. I may have gotten over each of the examples I cited above, but I don’t see why my daughter should have to do the same just because of some archaic belief that coming of age means learning to put up with the snarling come-ons of arrogant brutes.

New Post
 1/15/2013 5:09 AM
 
Because it looked like I was getting kicked off I copied the comments over to here.

It is worth noticing how many men are pointing out that the one sided debate is sexist and discriminatory. This did not happen even as recently as TWO years ago. Well done men! 



  • James ConnollyYesterday, 7:51 AM #

    In order for anything undesirable to thrive in a society all you need is for good people to do nothing.
    I’m a senior grade nurse, there is not a day goes by when I get groped or felt up or comments that are in someway uncomfortable, (by both men and women). I can’t help wonder if one of my female colleagues would be listened to a little better than I would be were we to both complain of the same sexually related incidents. (Not that I’m complaining about that either, but everyone presumes its men who sexually harass. Women can harass too, but the nature of the beast is that many men wouldn’t complain).

    Reply
    • Eric WrafterYesterday, 8:33 AM #

      as a nurse too, I’ve been subject to some commentary, ranging from the ‘I wouldn’t mind a bit of him’ to the slightly more obscene. I have been accused of becoming a nurse for the perceived fringe benefits I.e. I’m surrounded by women. I wasn’t so much offended as I was shocked that some one would reduce my career choice to a basic male stereotype. mostly I laugh it off.

    • Hi James,
      I have been a travelling IT consultant since 1987. I have worked all over the world with the conspicuous exception of South America. There is barely a country I have worked in where I have not been propositioned by women either in the work place or in the street or bars etc. Mostly because I am a “tall handsome” type.

      Hell in most hotels I stayed in during the 80s and 90s the hookers were run by the hotel and were constantly on offer….very often they were offered for free because I usually stayed at hotels for months at a time and this was the hotels way of “keeping me happy”.

      Naturally I handled all these propositions professionally and politely and turned them down. But clearly if they same proposition was made to a woman it would be “sexual harassment” and “unwanted”.

      I have seen FAR more sexual harassment of MEN in my career than I have seen of women. Indeed, all across the world, across MANY cultures and MANY countries I would say that sexual harassment of women BY MEN is all but none existent.

      And one last thing. WOMEN demanded to be in the workplace. Us men did not demand that they come into the work place. They demanded the opportunity and it was given to them. What have they done with it? They have “re-engineered” and “socialized” the workplace within an inch of its life and destroyed productivity all around the world by doing so. The endless false allegations of sexual harassment and court cases etc has decimated many businesses. I have founded the “Mens Business Association” as a global association via which men can do business without all the “good help” of women. Uptake is slow so far but it will be HUGE in the future.

    • Good God Peter. Amidst all that conjecture and personal anecdote hows about some facts. Starting here:

      “What have they done with it? They have “re-engineered” and “socialized” the workplace within an inch of its life and destroyed productivity all around the world by doing so”

      http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012...

      “A new report by the Credit Suisse Research Institute shows that businesses with women on their boards outperformed comparably sized companies with all-male boards by 26 percent, suggesting that a mixed-gender board provides an important boost for a business. According to the study:”

      If we can’t trust you to get that right, how can we trust you on anything?

    • Hi Ronan,

      “If we can’t trust you to get that right, how can we trust you on anything?”

      I think you might need to learn fact #1 about these “Research Institutes”. They are there to tell you lies and make the lies sound believable. If you can not tell when you have been lied to then I, for one, will dismiss your opinions and assertions as unreliable. It beggars belief that MEN can believe such blatant lies but believe them they do.

      You might want to find out a little about who I am before you try and pass off a lie a a “fact” to me. I am one of the best informed people in the world as to what is really going on and how to correct the current situation.

      In case you have not noticed, since the introduction of “feminism” the standard of living in the western world has fallen dramatically. That is what is called a “fact”. And it does not matter how many lies are told to cover it up…it remains a fact. It was also planned that way by what can be called “the european aristocracy”. Or have you not noticed that virtually ALL western countries are now swimming in debt?

      The standard of living has fallen DESPITE massive technological advances in the last 40 years. You might want to wonder why that is…you might want to go and do some research rather than believing lies that are peddled to you.

    • Sexual Harrasment like beauty is in the eye of the beholder, what is considered banter to one is harrasment to another. Everyone should have a line that no-one is allowed to cross. In my experience its when that line is crossed that the problems occur. Women who dont want to make a “fuss” often find themselves in a position where a man who has skirted the line, then feels agreived when he goes to far and is pulled up (give them an inch and they’ll take a mile) “sure whats your problem didn’t you let me put me arm around ya yesterday”. It doesn’t matter what the sex of the victim is, No-one should cross the line.

    • ” I am one of the best informed people in the world as to what is really going on and how to correct the current situation.”

      Okay. I’m out. This isn’t even close to being sensible. Take care

    • Ronan
      “Okay. I’m out. This isn’t even close to being sensible. Take care”

      You are welcome to live in ignorance. Most people prefer ignorance to enlightenment.

    • Kathy Dowd
      “It doesn’t matter what the sex of the victim is, No-one should cross the line.”

      So when women commit perjury with such things as false rape or false sexual harassment allegations is that “crossing the line”. Especially when the man goes to JAIL for 10 years or loses his job?

      And if so what are YOU going to do about it? Anything more than say “people should not cross the line”? But when they do? Do you speak up? Do ANY of you women speak up? Nope.

    • Hold on there # peter i was expressing my opinion as were you. I believe that a man accused of any sexual related crime should NEVER be identified until such time as he has been found guilt of said crime, A woman should face the full force of the law if it is proven that she has used the law to her advantage to obtain a conviction against someone and therefore should be named and shamed also. Would i speak up??? absolutely. If my son, brother, father were in that position i would defend them with my last breath. As would you if it was you mother, sister, daughter that was expierencing harrasment from an unwanted source. But i suspect the this is not what you want to hear.

    • Kathy,

      “A woman should face the full force of the law if it is proven that she has used the law to her advantage to obtain a conviction against someone and therefore should be named and shamed also. Would i speak up??? absolutely. If my son, brother, father were in that position i would defend them with my last breath. ”

      Then I have a case for you and your fellow “good women” to speak up about. It is the precedent setting case in Ireland. Many tens of thousands of good Irish men are behind me in line. I am the first man willing to risk his life and risk incarceration to break such rules as the “in camera” rule. I also video recorded a family court meeting in Australia and posted it to you tube. I am the only man in the world to do so.

      In 2007/08 my then wife committed the crimes of perjury, kidnapping, extortion and theft in Ireland. Your land. All these crimes have been proven. The crime of child abuse requires the testimony of the children at the time to furnish the evidence required by a jury. As a result of these crimes 95% of assets were handed over to my wife by the criminals in the family courts in Australia. I was further victimised by Alan Shatter and Enda Kenny. This victimisation by the criminals in guvment and the courts is an effort to shut me up.

      I pursued justice via all avenues for some years including presenting all evidence to Mary McAleese and Brian Cowan and then Enda Kenny and Alan Shatter after the elections. Last year I served all evidence of these crimes on all TDs.

      There is no possibility that ANYONE can claim that the evidence of these crimes has not been published. I am awaiting 12 honest men of honour and integrity to agree to serve on a jury so that I can present my evidence and gain a community supported path to justice for the crimes I have been victim of. I have decided to go in that direction rather than take the law into my own hands, a right I reserve by the way.

      Since YOUR SERVANTS in the Dail are not doing the job your taxes pay for I published all documentation of these crimes.

      I have asked THOUSANDS of Irish Men and women to form new courts with new juries because of the criminal nature of the existing courts and government. I have been roundly hated on for FIVE YEARS for asking for my ex to be held accountable for her crimes and all those injury, harm and loss that was inflicted on me to be remedied. There are many thousands of other men who have been seeking justice for crimes that have been committed against them by women in the family courts. They too have had all their pleas for help fall on deaf ears.

      The very fact I have been at this FIVE YEARS tells you how stubbornly Irish women have refused to hold my ex accountable for her crimes. So when people talk about “sexual harassment” of men and getting remedy for that? We laugh. We can not even get remedy for our houses being stolen.

      Many such men commit suicide in Ireland. How would you like your son to commit suicide because his wife committed the crime of perjury and stole his children and his house and destroyed his company by doing so.

      I am awaiting my day in court and my path to justice…as are MANY other men. So…do you want to live up to your claim you would speak out in such a case? Got friends who would do the same?

    • And this is one good example of why perjury by women must not be tolerated.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknew...

    • Peter, do i think that women have lied and manipulated the courts to gain advantage absolutely. Every one knows that this is an issue all over the world. Your case in not unique its just unique to you. Every case is different and every person both male and female will tell a tail to suit themselves. No one will ever take responsibility for their actions. A driver runs over a man crossing the road????? the man crossing the road says the driver was going to fast. the driver says the man walked out in front of him. Its called the blame game. A man beats his wife for years who eventually walks and he then abducts the child because she starts a new relationship. A woman goes to court to say that the father of her children hasn’t payed maintence despite the fact that he did pay but had no proof as it was all under the table. We all want to be right, but its the children that are usually stuck in the middle. They love their parents unconditionally and their not stupid. I hope you find what your seeking, I’m sure your a good man and father. Material things can be replaced if your children are still in ireland i hope you come back and fight for them they are the greatest possession you will ever have.

    • Peter is a well known woman hater who has pledged to wage actual war on all the TD’s in the Dáil. He is not the full schilling as can be seen from his youtube videos. Ignoring him is the best option for everyone concerned.

    • Kathy Dowd
      “Peter, do i think that women have lied and manipulated the courts to gain advantage absolutely. Every one knows that this is an issue all over the world. Your case in not unique its just unique to you. ”

      So if “everyone knows that this is an issue all over the world” why have you women remained silent, eh?

      I was in a diner on the highway between Sydney and Melbourne and the serving woman tried “not all women are like that” on me which I loudly rejected. I then went on to explain that she knew EXACTLY what was happening in the family courts. At the end of my rebuke you could have heard a pin drop in the diner….there were AT LEAST 50 people. Her colleague standing next to her said “He is right, we know that the men are badly treated and we do nothing about it. He is right.”

      So if a simple serving lady in a diner knows that women are lying in the courts to steal children and houses then there can be no argument that this is not WIDELY KNOWN. Right. And as she pointed out. Women do nothing about this…not even when their sons KILL THEMSELVES from the criminal abuse they have received. And what do people talk about “Oh lets talk about the PERVASIVE sexual harassment of women by men…….but let us NEVER talk about the women committing perjury in the courts.”

      Well? I talk about women committing crimes because NO ONE ELSE WILL.

      And of course I know this is not unique to me. But MANY women have claimed it is. They are liars and they know it. What IS unique to me is that I am going to re-introduce the rule of law to Ireland and I will do it without the help of you women because you were asked to join in for TWO YEARS and you refused.

  • Any word about men being sexualy harrased. My job often involves me talking to and dealing with groups of women. While I generally don’t mind the banter and groping I sometimes recieve if the shoe was on the other foot it would definately be classified as harrasment.

    Reply
    • Patrick, part of the problem with sexual harassment, on both sides is that its become such a norm in our society that people think its normal. The excitement it generates is a form of anxiety . As we are so accustomed to it, many people cant name it or identify this behaviour as ‘sexual harassment’. If you want to make a change, challenge the’ banter’ that you receive. Drawing attention to it could be the first step in stopping one of the women you work with from being raped as she could identify ‘banter’ from a lad as harassment and stop a situation escalating .

    • Mary, while you *are* right there is a cultural battle to fight that is similar to the one women had to fight (and still do) so it’s going to take a particularly courageous push by the first group of men who will be portrayed as weak, called sissy, have their orientation questioned and told to suck it up, like some genius in the comments below tells women to do. Just to say before I continue, that I agree whole-heartedly with Lisa’s article, I’m not a Male Rights Activist (see anti-feminist and misogynist) and I fully accept the fact that women put up with this shit on a daily basis.

      Broadening out of the kind of harassment Lisa writes about above and looking at sexual assault, child sexual abuse and rape by women on men and women, boys and girls we are met with a number of worrying things: people deny the possibility of female-on-male rape, even shrinks tell men that claim sex abuse by women that they were imagining it. Denmark is trying to bring in a law that will stop professional male carers from doing any personal care like nappy changing on kids which fits the ‘all men are potential rapists’ trope, allows the type of man who thinks abuse/rape is caused by the victim to continue to do so and pre-criminalises us while assuming women are incapable of sex abuse. Instead why not put in safe-guards that reduce the risk from *people*, not just one type of person.

      I worked in a Dublin nightclub off Merrion square that allowed stags and hens. If the stags stepped out of line even slightly they were turfed. Good enough, we all hated them. However, I was groped, licked, grabbed and had a dildo pushed in my face, and not *just* by giddy hens but by fifty year olds in the over-thirties club upstairs. The management had the same idea that most people seem to have: men should be happy with any sexual attention from women and if you find it humiliating, that’s on you, kid. This transfers to stuff like women teachers who have sex with underage students. There’s a lot of nudge nudge that assumes any boy would enjoy the attentions of an older woman and that if it’s a girl then she must’ve been a lesbian ‘anyway’. However, no one seems to take the next step (aside from the child not being old enough to consent): the boy or girl may not have had the slightest attraction to the adult, is most likely coerced, threatened, offered gifts and all the other grooming techniques used by adults on kids and those in power on their subordinates.

    • This isn’t true Patrick, now is it?

    • I’ll back that as well, many years ago while working as a waiter all the same things happened – licked, stroked, propositioned, generally objectified. Mostly involved hen parties, but not exclusively, gangs of girls getting ready for a night out could be just as bad. Can’t say I enjoyed any of it, but I was hardly going to cause a scene, I was sure managers would have laughed at me rather than chucking them out.

      Only time I complained was when a woman started … well … feeling up my balls as I was trying to carry five plates. In hindsight, I probably should’ve dumped a bunch of pasta over her, but there you go.

      Not that this detracts entirely from the point of the article, although I really wish that there would be some recognition that harrassment is not something that men do to women, but more of a gender blind phenomenon.

    • I don’t so much doubt that men have been victims of sexual harrasment, just wonder why the instinctive reaction to an article about harrasment (not from you) would be ‘what about men’ and ‘it happens to me, but I see it as good natured banter’.
      Doesn’t deal with the bones of the arguement in the article

    • as an addendum, 12 thumbs down. I’m horrified. What kind of place is this?

    • Mary,
      “Patrick, part of the problem with sexual harassment, on both sides is that its become such a norm in our society that people think its normal.”

      This is complete rubbish. I would say that I do not know ONE MAN who has EVER expressed the notion that sexual harassment of a woman was ok at ANY time, workplace or social. The closest I have seen men come to sexual harassment of women is when some men have had too much to drink. And us men almost ALWAYS take such men aside and tell him that it’s not ok and to cease and desist. I have NEVER seen a man continue to sexually harass a woman after being spoken to…..EVER. I am 48.

      I, for one, wish you women would stop telling such blatant lies about us men. I have called for women to lift themselves to the level of HONEST in the west. You simply refuse to do it. And that is one reason I live in Germany now. Women are HONEST in Germany. It is a very pleasant change from women in the west I can assure you.

      How about HONEST discussion on issues between men and women in the west. It sure would be a nice change.

    • Ciaran MacAoidh,
      Well said my good man and let me back you up 110%.

      By the standards applied to women (coercion) I was RAPED many times in my 18 year marriage. What are my chances of going to a court for “spousal rape”, eh? A snowball would have a better chance in hell and everyone reading this comment knows it.

      Further. Women rape boys on a very regular basis. And even though women tell us girls mature faster than boys a woman raping a boy is “an illicit affair” and the women will never see the inside of a prison. But if a man “rapes” a 16 year old girl who consented he’s going to do 10 to 15.

      I have called for women to be held EQUAL BEFORE THE LAW. And that means, very specifically, same crime same remedy, no discrimination based on sex. In FIVE YEARS there has not been ONE woman in Ireland prepared to demand women are held equal before the law to men. And I have spoken to EVERY female TD on this point.

      Indeed, not even MEN will call for women to be held equal before the law because they are afraid of the backlash of women. If there is ONE THING that PROVES the level of man hatred in Ireland it is that men are afraid to TELL THE TRUTH and SPEAK THEIR MIND because they KNOW they will be attacked by women. I am very likely the BEST example of this in all of Ireland. I have been able to sustain the endless slander of women in Ireland because I LEFT THE COUNTRY and live in a non english speaking country where men are show the respect they have earned. Germany.

    • Peter

      The fact that your comments are so full of definitive statements (FULLY CAPITALISED): “Women are HONEST in Germany” ; “I have NEVER seen a man continue to sexually harass a woman after being spoken to…..EVER” ..

      And controversial, overly simplistic generalized claims with no evidence to back them up: “Women rape boys on a very regular basis” ; “What have they done with it? They have “re-engineered” and “socialized” the workplace within an inch of its life and destroyed productivity all around the world by doing so.”

      Would lead one to the conclusion that you aren’t exactly a source of enlightenment on this topic

      “I am very likely the BEST example of this in all of Ireland.”

      This is a parody, right?

    • Ronan,
      “Would lead one to the conclusion that you aren’t exactly a source of enlightenment on this topic”

      Given that you presented an obvious lie by a “research institute” as your “evidence” of something you might want to take a closer look at yourself before you attempt to criticise others.

      I have written two books on this and related topics and they are freely available. There is not ONE TD or senior political figure in Ireland who does not know who I am and what I have published. I doubt there is ONE reasonably intelligent journalist in Ireland who does not know me. The hacks? Who cares? And they do not like me and what I have published.

      There is not a member of parliament in the UK, Australia or New Zealand who does not know me and know my work. I have created the remedy for how to live in freedom outside the jurisdiction of any guvment anywhere. And I have lived like that for three years now. Guvments are quite keen to suppress the information of how to live outside their jurisdiction for rather obvious reasons.

      That other people refuse to be enlightened when a book is put in front of them is hardly my fault, right? If you even knew what Platos Cave was you might find you are living in it. As are 99.99% of the people in Ireland.

      As for enlightened? After my last 5 years….there are not many men who are more “enlightened” than me. But that does not stop those living in Platos Cave from believing the shadows are real.

    • “Given that you presented an obvious lie by a “research institute””

      Sure, if you want to detail where the report from Credit Suisse is incorrect (Credit Suisse mind you, not some randomer on the internet) and pick apart the significant research this report is based on (and that backs it up) then do so by all means. I’m all ears

    • Ronan,

      “Sure, if you want to detail where the report from Credit Suisse is incorrect”

      “A new report by the Credit Suisse Research Institute shows that businesses with women on their boards outperformed comparably sized companies with all-male boards by 26 percent, suggesting that a mixed-gender board provides an important boost for a business. According to the study:”

      That is the incorrect bit.

      It is not my job to prove anything to you or detail anything to you. It is YOUR job to educate yourself. If you want ME to educate you for you then you can offer to PAY ME for my time. The report is a lie. Just like most of these “factoids from nowhere” that “research institutes” like to throw around. Like I said…it is amazing that men believe such blatant lies. I can understand women believing them…but men?

    • Wow, been staring at yourself so long in the water that you ended up as a flower there Peter?
      I agree, sex crimes by women don’t get treated the same and that is wrong, South Park did a great episode on it funnily enough..

      But your comments “I can understand women falling for it, but men?” (Paraphrased), alongside your massive trumpet blowing strikes you out as a bit of a narcissist. Good luck having anyone take you seriously with an attitude like that..

    • Peter, I don’t think you do back me up 110% because I agreed with what Mary wrote and just added my points to hers. I agree there are imbalances in the law and little or no consciousness of certain forms of abuse but you go on some really OTT and unpleasant rants on this page that I find pretty worrying.

      Your idea that you’ve been raped by your wife going by “women’s” definition of coersion sounds like you equate moral or physical force with you giving in to your wife’s cajoling, which is far, far off the mark.

      Also just a correction to my comment: Danish institutions not the state are looking at bringing in those rules.

    • Hi Ciaran.

      “Peter, I don’t think you do back me up 110% because I agreed with what Mary wrote and just added my points to hers.”

      Why would you imagine you know my mind better than I do?

      “I agree there are imbalances in the law and little or no consciousness of certain forms of abuse but you go on some really OTT and unpleasant rants on this page that I find pretty worrying.”

      Actually. No. There can be no such thing as “imbalances in law”. There is such a thing as “imbalances in legislation”. But legislation is not law. I rescinded my consent to be subject to any legislation of any guvment more than three years ago now. I live in freedom which I quite enjoy. I recommend to all men that they rescind their consent to be subject to legislation and, instead, only agree to be subject to LAW.

      What do you find “worrying” about a man telling the truth?

      “Your idea that you’ve been raped by your wife going by “women’s” definition of coersion sounds like you equate moral or physical force with you giving in to your wife’s cajoling, which is far, far off the mark.”

      It is not ME who equates moral or physical force with “giving in to your wifes cajoling”. Women define rape as “coercion”. That is a fact. Deal with it. By that definition I was raped MANY times. I did not “give in to my wifes cajoling”. I was mentally and physically abused in what would be criminal acts if perpetrated by a man.

      Indeed if what I was subject to was done by a military person it would be called torture and would be a war crime. But men like you want to reduce acts of torture down to “cajoling” when done by a woman. You might want to ask yourself why you did that.

      Example. In 93 my then wife, who had a degree in IT and a good job at IBM that I helped her get because I was at IBM unilaterally quit work. No discussion entered into. No discussion entertained. This was soon after we had bought a new house on the plan of having the two incomes. We had four kids at the time. So I became the SOLE income earner in a family of 6 with a mortgage that was predicated on TWO INCOMES. My wife said “I never promised to help pay the mortgage”. I pointed out she signed the mortgage contract. She claimed “Just because I signed a contract does not mean I have to live up to it.” And she is right. Women quitting work permanently without the agreement of the husband is VERY COMMON.

      Women are not held accountable for their signatures on contracts if there is a man who can be pinned for it. We ALL know this.

      In part because of the lack of income I had to leave IBM and start my own company. In the subsequent years I frequently worked in excess of 80 hours a week and traveled extensively. The pressure of being the sole income earner for a family of six with a very unhelpful wife got to my health and my health was severely compromised. By one expert estimate my physical condition degraded by about 15 years in the 5 years between 92 and 97. THAT was how hard I worked in the face of the refusal of my wife to work. I was later diagnosed as having a severe chronic condition that caused migraines, nausea, lack of balance, loss of colour vision, tunnel vision, and many more severe and unpleasant physical problems. Some of these issues were not reversible and I live with them today.

      Some nights I would get home as late as 1am having walked home from the train station 1km because my wife would not come and get me in the car. She consistently fed my dinner to the dog because I was “hurting her feelings by working too much”. She would pester me for sex when I was tired, hungry, nauseous, with a migraine or headache and only had 5 hours to get some sleep. She would keep me awake….which is SLEEP DEPRIVATION and is one of the most effective methods of TORTURE USED BY THE MILITARY until I “agreed” to have sex.

      If the genders were reversed there is not ONE PERSON on this forum who would not call that sexual harassment, and in legislation that is the very definition of “spousal rape”. There is not ONE person who would not say, if the genders were reversed, that the husband was a severely abusive husband. NOT ONE.

      But because it was a woman perpetrating the abuse and a man was the victim NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT and NO ONE WANTS TO RECOGNISE that if equality before the law is to be honoured then women are to be held just as accountable for such sexual harassment and rape as men are.

      Nope….NO ONE wants to talk about the OTHER side of the coin. That is “woman hatred”. That is “unpleasant”. That is “offensive”. That is anything BUT to be discussed in public, right?

      I have been at this five years. We have been VERY effective in exposing the hypocrisy of women AND MEN. My second book has had more than 4,000 downloads now. Every week I get emails from young men thanking me profusely for writing that book. It is now getting so much attention that men are actually starting to PAY ME for my time in exposing this hypocrisy in western society. They can see I have spent more than 4,000 hours of effort lining up my evidence and cases and they APPRECIATE that I have taken so much time to HELP THEM.

      My work is VERY widely known and JUST as widely suppressed. And you might want to ask why the TRUTH that I have published is so harshly suppressed….for examples….with orders from YOUR IRISH HIGH COURT attempting to suppress evidence of crimes. You are going to hear my name quite a bit over the next few years because it is not possible to suppress the TRUTH for any good length of time in the age of the internet.

    • Shanti Om
      “Good luck having anyone take you seriously with an attitude like that..”

      Enda Kenny takes me seriously. As does Alan Shatter, Mary McAleese, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Angela Merkel, Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard just to name a few. All irish TDs are taking me very seriously as are many members of your Garda.

      This is why your Irish High Court has been used to commit the crime of suppressing evidence of a crime and perversion of the course of justice. This is why your media was used to slander me nationally. This is why MI5/6 harassed me while I was in London. This is why ASIO (Australian CIA) has been slandering me and attacking my business partners for over two years now.

      This is why there is not a single senior person in politics in the english speaking world (bar india) who does not know who I am and what I have published. This is why there is no reporter in Ireland who does not know what I have published.

      The fact that YOU do not know who I am merely means you are very ignorant of what is really going on. EVERYONE who knows what is REALLY going on knows who I am and knows what I have published. Those people fall in to the camps of.
      1. Criminals who want to suppress what I have published because it exposes their crimes.
      2. Honest people who know what I have published is true but are too cowardly to take on the criminals…this being the VAST majority.
      3. A very small number of decent MEN who are willing to take on the criminals in the guvment.

      Sometimes being in the small minority is the most honourable place to be.

  • Good article, but not all the harrasment is done by men..

    Reply
  • It has struck me that the Neanderthals that perpetrate such sad and low acts carry on with blatant disregard in other areas of their lives also. They missed out on the emotional intelligence chip.

    Reply
  • In a land where children can do no wrong, where mommies hoover over their boys until they past 30, where there is a history of single parent homes, children having children and families where parents struggle with control… When are our children to learn self-respect, etiquette, manners and how to respect others? Who is to teach our children to learn self-respect, etiquette, manners and how to respect others?

    If self-respect, etiquette, manners and how to respect others isn’t taught in the home, then self respect , etiquette, manners and how to respect others will never be learned. These points of common decency, unfortunately must forced upon the worker by a strong work place policy and accountability.
    If a person, a group or culture does not see a behaviour as being improper or offense then, the behaviour will persist.

    Self-respect, etiquette, manners and how to respect others should be taught in the home, reinforced in our school system and in our communities and monitored by our friends, families and acquaintances.

    Reply
  • Jason MaguireYesterday, 11:13 AM #

    A buddy of mine spotted a fella slapping a girl on dame st. He stepped in to stop it, she started beating him with her high heels, cutting his face. He just walks on any more

    Reply
    • Hi Jason,
      Yep…I hear more and more stories like this.

      On the daily mail comments section in the UK a man who was a former police officer said he had been twice arrested and once reprimanded for assisting a woman who was being harassed by one or more men. His comment was that after the third time the women can fend for themselves….fishes and bicycles and all that.

  • These stats are from the Rape Crisis Centre: Domestic violence – an issue of gender
    1 in 7 women in Ireland compared to 1 in 17 men experience severe domestic violence. Women are over twice as likely as men to have experienced severe physical abuse, seven times more likely to have experienced sexual abuse, and are more likely to experience serious injuries than men. (National Crime Council and ESRI, Domestic Abuse of Women and Men in Ireland, 2005)
    90% of the more systematic, persistent and injurious violence that is instrumental in the maintenance of power, is perpetrated by men. (Male Victims of Domestic Violence: A Substantive and Methodology Research Review, Michael S. Kimmel, 2001)
    A major study of police reports and crime surveys in the UK, USA and Canada found that between 90 and 97% of perpetrators of violence in intimate relationships are men. (Dobash and Dobash, Women, Violence and Social Change, 1992)
    In the five years ending in March 2010, more than 312,100 defendants were prosecuted for domestic violence in the UK. 93% of defendants were men and 85% of victims were women. [Violence against Women Crime Report 2009-2010, UK Crown Prosecution Service]

    Reply
  • Peter Nolan

    “You women are so messed up that you think that you have some sort of “right” to walk down a street and not be harassed or assaulted or robbed and that it is someone ELSES problem to make sure you are safe 24×7.” – Peter Nolan

    Yes Peter, I do think I have a right to walk down the street without being harrassed. Yes i do

    Reply
  • Think about this often in relation to raising my son. Always looking for tips and info about instilling this respect. Feels like we’re on track but like all parenting issues, you never know how it will turn out.

    Reply
  • It is amazing that the dysfunctional attitudes portrayed on TV and films towards women when are lived out in reality are such a surprise.

    Reply
  • Probably the best article I have read on this site. Keeping this topic alive is how you change the mindset. It’s too slow but it’s the only way.

    Reply
    • Mick KennyYesterday, 8:03 AM #

      great article about harassment except it’s mostly gender biased against men. even though the article says males contacted her group she continually portrays males as the perpetrators. if the author wants to tackle all types of harassment this type of bias article will do nothing to help make victims come forward. sorry for the rant but I dislike being stereotyped and bashed because of my gender.

    • sorry should read “help male victims come forward”- predictive text strikes again.

    • I honestly don’t think this article bashes men. I think it bashes men who grope women. Surely we can agree that’s a legitimate attack?

    • Sadly some people have no real understanding of equality.

    • men who grope women should be “bashed”. but this article is so unbalanced and biased against men. even though she does say that she has been contacted by male victims she goes on to stereotype males as the aggressor or the ones who are oblivious to it or ignore it. if she wants to do an article on sexual harassment lets keep it fair and balanced. there are plenty of comments below from men who experienced harassment that this article does not recognise. bias article like this only go to reinforce stereotypes and hide the full story.

    • @ Mick Kenny. Is she not just giving proportionate attention to that majority which reported sexual harassment through the Shout Back campaign?
      She fairly points out that some men came forward too, but (not surprisingly) more women than men seem to be affected by this kind of behaviour.
      Have any of male commentators on here complaining of similar problems told their stories on the campaign?
      If not, why? That’s the only way she or anybody else can endeavour to give each group the attention it deserves. I doubt very much that it’s bias.

    • @ b Collins. i agree more men who experience this should come out and contact her or others who can help. my issue is her article focus and portrays men as perpetrators. (as a male i am tired of being tared of being a potential treat simple because of my gender.) if more men are to come forward more balance articles, supports and research need to be put out there to support victims regardless of gender.

    • @B Collins, it’s not the *only* way. In fact you nailed it right there; Lisa could write an article asking why men only come forward in anonymous or semi-anonymous forums. We could all question the cultural attitudes of harassment and abuse by women on women and men. I wrote a long reply above so I won’t go on here.

      @Keith Rooney, spot on. I know all too many women who have had this shit happen and most have had more than one experience of it. Most recently a friend was blocked from walking by a drunk leery creep and it went from creepy to terrifying very quickly. The creep had a group of embarrassed looking friends who did nothing and every one else on the street just looked on.

    • I have to disagree with Mick here.

      She does not portray ALL men as perpetrators, she focuses more on sexual harassment of women perpetrated by men. The fact is that more street harassment is directed at women and comes from men. I think the article reflects that and I think the author did make a specific reference to the fact that women are perpetrators too and men are victims too.

      What’s more is she focuses on the perception of men who would never act in such a manner. Making it glaringly obvious that far from all men do this kind of thing. While I can see what kind of point you are trying to make I think that claiming it is “biased” against men is highly inaccurate.

    • all her antidote portrays males as perpetrators or bystanders. the lack balance makes it bias against men.

    • I agree with Stephanie here. The article is in no way attacking men on the whole, but actually acknowledges that most men are not harassers. It’s not gender biased against men if it is simply pointing out a fact that the majority of people speaking out about being harassed are women and that the majority of people harassing them are men. It’s a fact, no matter how uncomfortable it might make you.

      Focusing on one aspect – here, on men harassing women – is often intentionally done. Because sexual harassment as a way to control women in the public sphere is a specific problem with a long and detailed history and therefore a stand-alone topic in its own right. I think people forget that it’s dangerous to lump all sexual harassment into one category because it’s intensely different depending on who it’s done to, when, where etc, and is an indication of very different problems in our society.

      It’s also very important to bring up the fact that so many men don’t have a notion what women are experiencing daily in public life, you have to understand that.

      BUT! It could also have stated that NOBODY seems to notice sexual harassment happening to men and boys. This article is indeed essentially ignoring all sexual harassment perpetrated by women, or by men against men. And that’s worrying when sexual harassment perpetrated by women especially seems to go completely unacknowledged in our society, and dangerously so.

    • “The Everyday Sexism Project exists to catalogue instances of sexism experienced by women on a day to day basis.” This is the opening line of the “everyday sexism project” that the author talks about in the article. In this article she says people can share stories but the website itself welcomes women to share their stories. How as a society can harassment be tackle by this one sided campaign. The author says she doesn’t want her daughter to experience what she’s gone through and I can empathise with that as a father of two boys (5 & 7), I don’t want them growing up in a world where they are stereotyped as potential threat because of their gender or as the author disrespectfully puts it “driven mad by their own hormones.” I’d welcome a campaign that is balanced to tackle harassment regardless of gender because only then will we get a full picture of the issue. But sadly this is not it.

    • Mick Kenny
      “sorry for the rant but I dislike being stereotyped and bashed because of my gender.”

      I support your comment 110%. I too dislike being hated on merely for being male. I have spoken out on this point for the last five years and have been HATED ON by MOST WOMEN AND MEN that I have brought such topics up to. So I am very pleased that the MAJORITY of comments on this article are pointing out the blatant bias in the article. Well done! Please be as forthright in the future. It is making a difference. Comments like yours were UNHEARD OF five years ago when I started doing this.

    • Keith Rooney
      “I honestly don’t think this article bashes men. I think it bashes men who grope women. Surely we can agree that’s a legitimate attack?”

      This is because you do not understand the nature of subliminal programming which is what this article is designed to do. I am an expert on these things. It is no accident that this article does not mention sexual harassment perpetrated by women. It is no accident that no specific audited studies of the actual incidents of sexual harassment are present. It is no accident that the “incidents” presented are anecdotal in nature and then called “pervasive” when there is no evidence of such.

      It might be time for you to google the word “misandry” and realise that this article as a good case in point. Which is why I am bothering to comment here. I am busy and I have other things to do. But this article is such a man hating article I bothered to come over to comment.

    • Thanks for the words of support Peter.

    • Yes Mick, I agree.

      Peter Nolan, your comments on this thread are mad…can’t take you seriously at all sorry >_<

    • Peter Nolan

      You appear to be confusing The Journal.ie with a peer reviewed journal. The author does not require an audited survey to give accounts of personal experience. I think it’s quite clear that people are aware she is not passing her article off as having some well researched scientific basis as most people commenting have clearly picked up on that fact. The article is clearly and unashamedly an opinion piece. I suggest you google that once you’ve finished with “101 ways to condescend on the internet to imply you are intelligent”

      It’s an article recounting personal experience which does, at times, stray into generalisations but that does not reduce the overall message nor the validity of the argument that harassment of this sort is more commonly perpetrated, though not exclusively so, by men. I have yet to see a comment on this page that says otherwise. Yes, women can be excessively sexually aggressive too but that doesn’t excuse either sex, nor does it invalidate the argument of a member of either sex who tries to highlight the plight of their own gender in these situations.

    • Mick I have to point one thing out about the “driven mad by their own hormones” sentence. Whatever about this article, the fact is that anti-street harassment movements are usually quite vocal about how men are perceived in our society. It is seen in our culture generally that men can’t help themselves when they see, for example, a woman in a short skirt. If a woman invites a man into her home, sure it’s not his fault if he jumps on her, she did let him into her house! Etc. All these kind of excuses play straight into the victim blaming game, but also does men a great disservice in saying they’re pretty much like uncontrollable animals that you have to be wary of: not decent human beings with intelligence and self control.

      You’ll find those most vocal about changing this perception of men are the (mostly) women involved in anti-street harassment movements, anti-slut shaming movements and the likes. I see the odd man involved too, but so far I’ve not seen a huge effort from men to challenge and change this view of themselves of their own accord. The main perpetrator of this myth about male sexuality is the sexist culture we live in – men and women are involved in keeping this myth alive – but if men want to help put a stop to it, as a whole we have to hear their voices a lot more in the campaigns against street-harassment.

  • The reason people dont take action in a crowd is a diffusion of social responsibility. (Google kitty Geneovese 1964) If you ever need help you’re more likely to get it if you personalise a comment. ( Eg you in the red top call the guards etc )

    It puts personal responsibility on that individual and it’s harder for them to hide behind the anonymity of the crowd.

    I think with the wide spread of porn on the net and the easy of access via smartphones and other devices, can lead to some of this generations young lads getting a warped view of sex and how to communicate with women/girls and whats acceptable and unacceptable.

    Again it’s something I believe needs to addressed in sex education in schools with a focus on personal development.
    I’d also recommend that girls take up self defence,Krav Maga is a particularly effective martial art.

    And lads if you see a girl getting harassment step up and do something. It could be your mother,sister, girlfriend next time. No woman deserves abuse be it physical mental or sexual.

    Reply
  • MehYesterday, 7:54 AM #

    It’s mostly the victims and perpetrators who see, or are aware of harassment, most people (read good men and women) don’t see this on a daily basis. So complaining that others who are not perpetrators or victims are somehow complicit by not doing anything about it is nonsense. If they are made aware of it or are asked for help to deal with it by a victim they will of course attempt to do something about it.
    That said, sexual harassment by women against men is very common, the reason being there is none of the potential sanctions present for a female harassing a male, tied with the taboo about men protesting any issues that affect them that are deemed by female privilege to be only “women’s issues”.

    Reply
  • VYesterday, 9:45 AM #

    If sexual harassment is as big a problem for men then they need to start speaking up. It’s not a one sided article, the problem is only one side is complaining about it. If you’re being sexually harassed by women then say something. I’ve never heard a man talking to his friends upset because a group of women cat called him, never heard a man complain about being groped by women at his job, never read an article about a group of women gang raping a man. If it happens to men just as much they’re keeping very quiet about it. It wouldn’t be seen as a woman’s issue if they were to speak up as well. The only place I ever see men complain of sexual harassment is in the comments under articles like this so is that the only place they feel comfortable saying anything?

    Reply
    • I couldn’t agree more with this comment, seems to be only men commenting with “what about men”. Speak out outside of the Journal so!

    • I don’t believe men are bothered to the same degree. (Although my usename might be a bit of misnomer, I’m male). At a Christmas party this particular lady would just not quit resting her hand on my inner thigh. It was annoying but not massively so. That is to say I’d have rather she kept her mitts to herself but on the scale of annoyances that week it rated somewhere between the letter about the TV licence and running out of bog roll.

      In any instance, we’re no wiser to understanding if there is a problem or if there isn’t. The article is so loaded with scary stereotypes and willful ignorance of female behaviour it’s impossible for me to discern if we do have a real problem here or if it’s just another case of the author hating on men (again).

    • as the author says she was contacted by men but where does she represent them in this article. if she wants to tackle harassment she needs to represent all who contact her and not discriminate who she represents based on gender.

    • @ the lost lenore

      Genuine question. Is it not a control thing? I mean in you’re example I’d guess you thought that you could physically stop the woman if required, where as if the gender roles were reversed, it is less likely the woman would feel she could physically stop you. As a result she might feel less control and so more aggrieved. (As generally, though of course not always, women are physically weaker than men)

      Though there are social control issues too. For example, if the lady was your boss, you’re new to your dream job but not yet permanent, you have a family and really need the money the job brings in. In such a situation you might feel you don’t have control, that if you stop her your life is ruined etc You might feel more aggrieved then too.

      Then again I’ve been lucky enough to not have had any real experience with sexual harassment so perhaps my previous hypothesis is horse sh*t.

    • Yes. Finally. God help anyone who is thinking about submitting an article on this site to raise awareness of issues that appear to affect women predominantly. You can be guaranteed that there’ll be an onslaught of comments and 60-70% of them will centre around a “what about men/another one-sided article/yet more feminist man-hating bile/equality goes both ways” message.
      And yet, men do not seem to report these problems through the channels that are discussed in the article. I DO get sick of this inevitable anti-feminist “you just hate men” backlash. It’s so predictable.

    • @John F Fair point, and that’s why I might not have felt the behaviour as objectionable as a woman might.

      @B Collins The reason why we’re seeing this reaction is because there’s very little facts or proper analysis in these articles. It’s perfectly understandable that when male readers of the site get yet another article ascribing the traits of the worst kind of men as almost default behaviour while living in blissful ignorance of female wrongdoing with no backup save the authors personal bias, they may feel inclined to vent.

    • V
      “If sexual harassment is as big a problem for men then they need to start speaking up.”

      When we speak up we are slandered, demonised, vilified, ridiculed, hated on and worse.

      For example. I have spoken out for FIVE YEARS as the crimes my ex committed in the family courts. These crimes were perjury, kidnapping, extortion, theft and child abuse. The first 4 crimes have been PROVEN. I have put ALL the members of the Dail on the hook for these crimes because they were committed with the support of a Judge and then with the support of ALL members of the Dail.

      How much more can a man “speak out” than to declare into existence a state of WAR and to be slandered in a NATIONAL NEWSPAPER? By Ali Bracken I would note. And in all that time how many WOMEN have said, in their own name, in public, that women must be held accountable for their crimes? ZERO.

      So if women are not held accountable for perjury, kidnapping, extortion, theft, child abuse, rape, and murder?

      How do you think us men are going to go with a sexual harassment case? It is a serious question. Women can murder men and children and reasonably expect to not be punished AT ALL.

    • B Collins
      “And yet, men do not seem to report these problems through the channels that are discussed in the article. ”

      Oh YES we do. My wife stole EUR18,000 from our company. This was reported to the police as well as to the companies commission. The answer? No reply.

      So B. Tell me. Why is it ok for a woman to steal EUR18,000? Indeed, on the TNS Radio site a lad I was teaching asked the 300 women there if stealing EUR18,000 from a mans company was considered a “crime” by the women present. Not ONE woman called stealing EUR18,000 a “crime”. Not ONE.

      Further. My exs crimes of perjury, kidnapping, extortion and theft were ALSO reported to the police. No response. The evidence was served on Brian Cowan and Mary McAleese in October 2010. They acknowleged receipt but refused to order prosecution. I then served all the evidence again on Enda Kenny and Alan Shatter after the elections. Again. No action. I then served all the evidence on ALL TDs in January this year.

      In response Alan Shatter unilaterally denied my citizenship application. Further, he has refused a residency permit despite the fact it is MANDATORY and he is actually unable to refuse it because it is an EU Directive that is relevant in my case. Since then I have served about 5 or 6 notices on ALL members of the Dail and have served similar materials on NUMEROUS leading journalists.

      I guess that counts as “has not reported crimes via the recommend channels”, eh?

      What you women fail to listen to is that when a man reports a crime committed by a woman he will be HATED ON and further criminally victimised by the criminals in your legal system and guvment. MANY men have experienced the same. You women do not realise that us men are treated as having less protection than a stray DOG when it comes to “the law” in Ireland. And you women quite like that position by the way. You women call the police and expect them at your beck and call paid for predominantly by mens taxes. But when a man is criminally victimised by a woman you women are as silent as church mice and the guvment and police will do nothing….unless what it is they do is more persecution of the man.

  • “All sexual harassment needs to thrive is for good men to do nothing” or good Women.
    If you don’t report such behaviour surely you are part of the problem by this reasoning.

    Reply
    • In fairness Steo, calling the guards any time someone gropes you is not going to fix the problem and you are deluding yourself if you think it will. If you’re in a club or a pub and someone slaps your ass, do you HONESTLY think 1) a guard will actually take you seriously and come to club/pub to dole out some punishment, 2) that you can actually find the person who did it after they disappear back into the huge crowds in a dimly lit venue?
      No. Saying that women who don’t “report it” just add to problem, is just a smart-ass way of disregarding the problem just because you don’t like feminist rhetoric (and fair enough if you don’t).
      The point here is that It is far more effective for OTHER PEOPLE to stand up and say, “actually, that’s not okay”. It costs nothing to do it. You’ve already put more effort into giving out stink about the writer’s fairly valid opinion (that sexual harassment is wrong).

    • I did not pick the title of this article.

    • What makes you think the author did? I submitted something to this site before and someone else picked the title. In any case, the title is just a take on the popular quote from Edmund Burke: “Evil triumphs when good men do nothing.”
      Your comment does not address my point that shrugging your shoulders and saying “it’s the victims’ fault if they don’t report it” is not a realistic solution and that it would be far more effective if society as a whole made sexual harassment taboo by protesting against it as it happens. No matter what gender the victim or the perpetrator.

    • B Collins this whole issue comes down to respect. A lot of people in society have no respect for others. You also seemed to have completely missed my point and topped off your argument with a condescending lessons in literature.

    • UnagiYesterday, 1:44 PM #

      I believe Steo – and I’m open to correction on this – that the title of the article may come from the Edmund Burke quote “All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.” in which case the title is using a (fairly widespread) habit of modifying recognisable quotes so article titles will resonate with readers and encourage them to read? Pure pop-psychology on my part, but having read the article, it was fairly clear that Lisa was writing from a personal perspective, referenced men to the extent that she has information on the topic, and decided to go with an informed rather than speculative viewpoint.

      I’d also hazard a guess that, had she speculated, she’d be criticised for talking about abuse received by males when she isn’t one, and wasn’t informed on the topic.

      Another case of can’t win, but at least she didn’t go for the “so why try” option.

      Frankly, even if Lisa only speaks about sexual harassment of women by men, it’s still a valid enough topic for discussion. Sexual harassment might not be something experienced solely by one sex or the other, but it doesn’t mean that sexual harassment of women doesn’t happen, isn’t perpetrated by men (and, to a lesser extent, other women – but that’s not referenced at all, and there’s no apparent outrage there), and isn’t a valid and important issue to discuss openly to remove the stigma for victims.

      I don’t know one woman I’m close friends with who hasn’t experienced not just mild, socially acceptable sexual harassment, but actual, scary, threatening and intimidating sexual harassment by a male – be they friend or stranger. We’re taught to laugh it off, or run away, and (if we ever do open up about it) discuss it only in hushed tones with close friends. Even then, it’s often pushed aside as something we need to just get over.

      The fact that the article isn’t a 50-50 women’s experiences -v- men’s experiences split doesn’t discredit the validity of what is written there.

      Gosh, this was supposed to just be my 2c – looks more like €2!

    • You have no idea how boring that was

  • harassment is wrong whoever it happens to but even though the author points out that men have contacted them with stories of harassment too why does the article bash men. If the group want to tackle harassment they should try to tackle it without bias to men so victims of both genders can come forward and this idea that it only happens to women can be stopped. sorry for the rant be as a male i dislike being stereotyped as a potential treat because of my gender.

    Reply
    • Would you ever have the good grace to acknowledge that harassment and violence against women is a significantly different thing and a much bigger problem for god’s sake – it is a horrible global issue at the moment with women who step out of line at all in a number of different countries. You know full well that it is a much more threatening thing from a man to a woman and you know why.

    • @ Michelle. you missed my point completely. I not taking away what any victim of harassment goes through. but this article is biased and discriminates against men portraying us as potential treats. any victim of harassment,violence, abuser etc regardless of gender goes through horrible things nobody should have to but lets face it the perpetrators are not just men and male victims pain is equally as damaging. lets skip this gender stereotyping.

    • She repeatedly makes it very clear that she is not gender stereotyping.

    • Again, it’s not gender stereotyping. If the majority of perpetrators of sexual crimes against women are men, and these sexual crimes happen daily, then is it biased to report this fact?

      It’s a fact that because of my experiences as a woman, every man I meet I have to try to suss-out in my head if he’s a potential threat. Is that me being unjustly biased, or me being sensible? It’s a fact that I’ve been groped, followed, threatened, spat on, humiliated by men as a girl and as a woman. It’s a fact that every man I’ve explained this to was shocked and never realised what my reality was like. And that’s the reality for most women.

      In the same vein, this article is far from bashing men. It acknowledges the majority of men to be decent human beings who don’t harass women – ie. it is NOT saying all men are a threat. It’s very clear on that, actually. It may not be tackling sexual harassment experienced by men and that’s a fair point, but to state that it’s discriminating against men is to show just how insensitive you are to the very real and unique issue of sexual harassment that women face.

    • Hey Mick, would never stereotype men in general as violent or engaged in harassment of women – most men are intelligent and sensitive it seems to me. However, I just feel that it is the elephant in the room that sexual harassment and actual violence is BY FAR more of an issue for women than for men. How many times have you actually felt scared of a woman when you were out and about, or frightened for your safety? This is a common occurrence for women. The difference in strength and potential for aggressive behaviour is obvious.

      I agree violence on the streets (what my son would call being hopped on) is a real issue for men (probably even more than women) but it is perpetrated by other men. So if you wanted to raise that as an issue I would not object because I worry about my son out and about, but the harassment of women by men is something that has such potential inequality of strength and power and potential for violence behind it that you cannot compare women and men’s experience.

  • Men are victims of sexual harassment too. Yet another one sided article on this subject. It would appear that the author is either unaware or unwilling to acknowledge this.

    Reply
    • Did you share your story through the campaign? Did the men you know that have experienced sexual harassment share THEIR stories through the campaign she’s writing about here?
      There’s nothing she can do or say if guys don’t speak up about it, and I’m going to go out on a limb and say a lot of them DON’T talk about it for fear that they might be laughed at. Rather simplistic to call it biased or accuse of one-eyed man-bashing simply because guys don’t tend to talk about it. She can only report on information available to her. There may well be a separate article coming that focuses exclusively on men’s experiences. This one is clearly about women’s experiences and society’s acceptance.

  • ‘Straight men driven mad by their hormones’. ???? I don’t think so!

    Reply
  • Ah great. Another biased anti-male article in The Journal. We hadn’t had one in about two weeks.

    As anyone who’s visited a nightclub in the last few decades will tell you, women are perfectly capable of being just as unwelcomely frisky at times. And don’t get me started about when the go out hunting in packs.

    As mentioned earlier the author must be hanging out in some atrocious dives. I can’t see this kind of behaviour being tolerated in any sort of reasonable place but if you socialise in the likes of [insert name of notorious Harcort Street venue] surely reason would dictate its time to look elsewhere for civil behaviour and enlightened conversation?

    Reply
    • Surely you are notnreferring to Coppers?

    • Perish the thought. Now I’m not in favour of some sort of anodyne version of the dating game where both parties have a contract read over by their solicitors but there’s plenty of venues you can meet people at that strike a happy medium.

      Not that I think it’s going to do any good – a quick read through of Lisa’s back catalogue will demonstrate she’s set on raging on all members of the make gender.,

  • My two cents worth, I think everytime a biased article such as this is printed or published it takes away from the core issue. Sexual harresment needs to be addressed but it will not be as long as it is viewed as female being victim only. Women are every bit or more capable of being predators. Old man who desires a young woman is a DIRTY OLD MAN. Old woman who desires a younger man is fashionably labeled a COUGAR. This is the message going out to our younger generation. #justsaying#

    Reply
    • One thing that’s also conspicuously absent are facts. Personal opinion, hyperbole and a totally unscientific twitter poll are not a subject for proper research. They’re easily discredited especially given the tendency of this particular author to be completely blind towards female behaviour while raging against men in general.

    • Agreed

    • What? A guy who sleeps around is a ‘stud’ and is lauded by his mates. A girl who does the same is a ‘slut’ & laughed at by men & women alike. #justsayin

    • @Ellis Bell

      True, both sides have horrendous treatment. In my head I always frame it as women definitely have worse physical abuse and men are thought of more degradingly by society.

      But ya both need to be addressed really desperately.

    • Ellis. you are correct and I agree with you. Its this acceptance of both the Stud & The Cougar that undermines the whole arguement. I am sure you dont agree with my point above but strangely enough you are actually making the same point yourself. #justsaying#

  • So this author blames the men who carry out harassment and the men who do not carry our the harassment?

    Reply
  • The 4 examples at the start of the article are not ‘street harassment’. Rather, they are the consequence of going to pubs and clubs that have immature drunks amongst their clientele – maybe not the best place to find ‘decent men’. In my experience those type of establishments cater equally for girls/women who behave equally appallingly. It’s an alcohol/social issue – not a gender one.

    Reply
  • Aren’t people who do that to women just creepy weirdos? Weirdos will always be weirdos. I’ve been “harassed” plenty of times by women, it’s embarrassing but boohoo, I’ve got bigger problems on my mind, I got over it.

    Reply
  • I do not condone harassment, which is one reason I don’t condone feminism. The constant negative portrayal of men, manhood, and masculinity is nothing more than harassment and bullying and is every bit as offensive as the harassment that Ms. McInerney is complaining about. Let me ask this question: If no woman can ever be held to account for her sexual behavior because that would be ‘victim-blaming’, what do you call asking ALL MEN to be responsible for the actions of a minority? After all, I’m sure Ms. McInerney feels no guilt for the actions of other women.

    Reply
    • You really are mixing up a lot of stuff in there. Being groped or raped IS NOT sexual behaviour it’s an attack. If a woman exhibits unwanted sexual behaviour toward YOU it wouldn’t be victim blaming to call her out. To say that it was your fault that she groped you would be victim blaming.

      Lisa is not asking all men to be treated as guilty but men do have a responsibility to call other men out when those men harass women sexually, otherwise the abusers can go on thinking that MOST men think it’s ok.

    • I’m not confused about anything. I reject the idea that my gender makes me responsible for the behavior of others of my gender. I reject the idea that my penis was born with some kind of original sin.

    • Reject away, though you aren’t rejecting anything I suggested. What about the bit about victim blaming part where you appear to suggest that a victim should control her/his ‘sexual behaviour’? Did you just misspeak or do you believe a victim *is* contributing ‘sexual behaviour’ to their attack?

    • I gotta agree with Arch on this one. Men are not some collective hive-mind and the majority of us do not have a responsibility to keep individual men from harassing women. Such an aurguement can be filed next to all Muslims are responsible for stopping individuals committing terrorism. The only one who has a duty to make sure a lecher doesn’t harass women is the lecher himself. As an individual he is responsible for his actions, not the rest of us and certainly not the woman.

      And on a smaller scale, why exactly should any man risk getting his head kicked in by telling some caveman to stop cat-calling at a woman? If she won’t tell him to piss off herself why should the you or me do it?

  • Tad wee bit sexist

    Reply
  • “Women aren’t some sort of exotic quarry to be hunted down by straight men driven mad by their own hormones”…. I would have thought that was the exact nature of a straight man.

    Reply
    • I know lots of straight men, James. Thankfully, none of them are like that.

    • If we wernt driven by our hormones why would we bother, it’s human nature. Whether it’s done in a respectful manner or not, it’s still the same thing at the end of the day. You sound as bad as herself because if you think that the men you speak of have never acted inappropriate before then you really have to take the blinkers off.

  • Unmarried straight white catholic Irish men are evil.

    Reply
    • You should be more inclusive , surely it’s all men are evil but especially Unmarried straight white catholic Irish men. :-)

  • You should have reported all these incidents to the Gardai. Maybe then your ‘friends’ will change their attitude.

    Reply
    • Calling the guards or reporting these issues to the guards is neither a practical nor viable solution. That’s why nobody does it.

    • Apportioning blame to every man because certain reprobates act the pervert is neither a practical nor viable solution.

    • Have an aul’ read there again, Steo. She clearly doesn’t apportion blame to all men.

    • Ciaran it’s not the intention of the article but that’s what it basically achieves.
      “All sexual harassment needs to thrive is for good men to do nothing”.
      If you are a good man and you do nothing by the reasoning of the article you are somehow abetting sexual harassment.
      It’s an abhorrent argument to put forward.

    • I would counter that if you see it’s happening and do nothing you may not be as good as you think. Sitting back is as much as choice as intervening and perpetrating is.

    • Thanks Ciaran you have inadvertently made my point.

    • No, I get your point, nothing inadvertent there. You are saying that if you see something wrong happen and choose to do nothing about it you are a good person. I say you aren’t. You are either lacking in empathy or courage.

    • It doesn’t automatically make you a bad person.

    • You should report every time you get hit on our groped in a nightclub to the Gardai? Really ‘Steo’, this is your solution?

    • I thought that was just a play on the quote it is mimicking, “all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”..
      I suppose it depends on how you read it.

    • Yeah, you’re probably right.

    • In the blurb underneath it it qualifies that all men and women need to step up..

    • ahahahahaahah! oh wow! thats hilarious!! ring the guards? So every woman in the whole country, should ring the guards every time a man gropes them? wow.. I’d have to ring a few times a week? it’d be exhausting and time consuming giving all those reports. I mean, that’s just the least feasible idea I’ve every heard in my life! So each night club, pub, gig, bus, train, luas in the whole of Dublin, every day of the week, with each woman in each location, all ringing the guards individually and simultaneously? instead of just a “good” man or two saying “hey, the girl doesn’t like that, what are you doing?”. brilliant idea! I dont even go out that often, but when I do, I’ve often gotten bouncers when the groping just gets to a ridiculous level, but they often just give warnings. I actually ring the guards quite a lot, as I genuinely do feel they should be called more, ie; fights on the street, people trying to rob bikes etc., which people seem to stroll by with their heads down, but for these incidents the guards would do even less than the bouncers. There is a definite culture of “sure its grand, its to be expected” in Ireland. “ringing the guards” would do nothing.

  • I think a sociological experiment is in order. Let’s get a man to stand on O’Connell St and say to each young woman who passes “I do not find you attractive and therefore have no sexual intentions towards you.” Who would get in more trouble? This guy or the leery gropers?

    Reply
    • John, you are scaring me. How about the freedom to walk down the street without anybody who is a stranger feeling it is OK to approach you, come into your personal space and make any kind of personal comment at all to you? How would you like strange guys approaching you in the street and making personal comments – whether your arse is nice in that, fancy a shag, or else I don’t find you attractive mate? Because that is more of a comparison, given the fact that an unwelcome approach into your private space by a strange man is more threatening than an approach by a strange woman – and if you don’t understand that, then I give up. Anyway, do you not see how weirdo it is to approach a stranger in the street and make very personal comment to them? As a woman this is a constant unwelcome, and sometimes intimidating, feature of life.

    • Jaysus Michelle calm down. I was speaking in purely theoretical terms. I’m not expecting any rational person to actually do it. Personally I think person who harasses another is despicable.

      I was just wondering what people would find more offensive. Getting felt up by some groper in a pub or having someone randomly express their complete disinterest. Just curious is all.

    • Michelle,

      “How about the freedom to walk down the street without anybody who is a stranger feeling it is OK to approach you, come into your personal space and make any kind of personal comment at all to you?”

      You women said you were EQUAL to us men. Remember? So what you talk about has not got ANYTHING to do with “freedom”. You are free to go about your life as you wish. But you only have the freedoms you are prepared to defend. Who is going to defend what you call your “freedom” to walk down the street without someone coming into your personal space or making a personal comment? Really. WHO is responsible for what you call that “freedom”?

      You women are so messed up that you think that you have some sort of “right” to walk down a street and not be harassed or assaulted or robbed and that it is someone ELSES problem to make sure you are safe 24×7.

      Rubbish. If you are out in public anyone can walk up to you at ANY time and make ANY comment they care to make. It’s called “being a grown up” and there are almost NO women in the west who are grown ups. You are like big children who think the police are your local “daddy” that you can call whenever someone “offends” you or does not do what you want. The best example being the woman who called 911 to get the cops to come and make the McDonalds employees make her some more chicken nuggets. Duh?!

      Examples. When I was in Bucharest some guys tried to rob me. Hint. I had no “right” to walk down the street unmolested by vagabonds or robbers. I am free to walk down the street and they are free to try and rob me. I told the three of them that if they tried to rob me I would chase one of them down and kill him. So they left me alone. I was also attacked by a pack of 6 wild dogs one night. I did not have a “right” to “safety”…I had a “right to self defense”. I was able to convince the dogs that attacking me was a BAD IDEA and they retreated without a fight.

      Most women do not know what “freedom” is. You do not know what “rights” are. You confuse “rights” with “privileges”. You only have the RIGHTS that YOU can defend. If you need someone else to defend YOUR RIGHTS then you need to ask the question WHO ELSES RIGHTS ARE YOUR WILLING TO DEFEND IN RETURN?

      According to all the Irish women I have talked to (thousands of them) they are not wiling to defend ANY MANS RIGHTS in a court of law as a jury member. So why should men defend your rights as you walk down the street….which they do by the way.

      How many men here have defended a woman we do not even know being harassed in the street? LOTS OF US. It is not a “right” to have the nearest man be your unpaid bodyguard. It is a PRIVILEGE that is totally unappreciated today.

    • I’d like to take this oppourtunity to distance myself and the rest of mankind from the opinions of Peter Nolan. As for responding to what he said, I’m touch touching that with a 20-foot internet pole.

    • On a side note – with regards people coming into your space.. This applies to all harassment.
      Whether it be some skanger trying to start trouble for the sake of it or a sexual comment like a gang of girls making lewd comments at a barman, etc..
      It’s about respect, it’s about people not being encouraged to think about how their behaviour affects others. It’s bad bloody parenting..

      Kids come into this world knowing nothing, their primary teachers are their parents. If their parents do not encourage them to think about their behaviour and put themselves in another persons shoes, to think about consequences – then they do their children and society at large a great disservice. They raise people who only think of themselves – and these are the sorts of people who are prone to harassing others, becoming aggressive toward others.. These people are the problem. It’s not about whether they are male or female, it’s about their mindset.. Which is majorly ego driven and impulsive.

  • I agree, Maureen. These vile, negative attitudes towards women seem to be endemic in our society. All this knee-jerk, hyped up crap about silently suffering males is a sideshow – a diversionary tactic used to take the spotlight off the real issue, which is the virulent misogyny prevalent in our culture.

    Reply
  • Good piece, but how you suppose to tackle the problem that is older in its nature than this country? You can’t do this by law as it would be next to impossible to prove most of them, you can do 3 things, educate in schools, raise some awareness campaigns for adults and minimise your exposure. Im not exactly saying victims fault, but many women are known to provoke and play situations and some males then get this picture applied to the lot of them. Like if you wear short dress and high heels what do you expect there always be some comment etc. from some random blokes. it doesnt mean they are all rapists. This works other way too my friend runs in the city and he is seriously ripped and good looking guy from Spain he is getting shouts and whistles from woman often (yeah I wish it was me lol…). So all this may help problem, but still won’t ever eliminate it cause it just sits in some people’s nature.

    Reply
    • People shouldn’t have to alter their perfectly legitimate behavior or dress code to minimise others arseholeness. Saying what do you expect or some version pof you’re asking for it isn’t OK…

    • Just as your running friend shouldn’t have to be subjected to cheers and whistles when he’s trying to work out, women who decide to dress in short skirts shouldn’t be subjected to lewd suggestions and ass grabbing because of it. No one is ever asking for it, full stop.

    • I agree guys but isn’t that bit if common sense? You don’t ask to die when you’re speeding a car but chance increases right? You don’t ask for diabetes with every bite if that creamy cake, but the chance increases, doesn’t it? You don’t ask to be stomped down going to a gig but chance increases right? You cannot change basic people instincts and behaviours same like you cannot change physics and good luck if you think you can. So if you wear tight short dress in tight night club and complaining about some drunk rubbed against you on the dance floor then I say hard luck you are trying to pickup hopeless fight. Just go to the cinema instead or restaurant and don’t expose yourself if this is such big problem. Again do not get me wrong there is very thin line between what is acceptable and what’s not I am not saying its fine to touch woman in nightclub I’m saying there is risk this happens and just avoid those situations if you’re not comfortable with even chance of this happening. That’s what I do with my own life anyway.

    • There is no base instinct that says ‘grab lady parts!’ in men, or ‘must comment on guy’s junk!’ in women. There are, like this article points out, accepted behaviours in society that empowers people to harass men who want to go for a run and women who want a drink in a skirt. And, arguably, those are changeable if people stand up and call the harassers out. Otherwise, we’re victim-blaming here, shrugging our shoulders and saying “they’re asking for it” and that’s certainly not acceptable.

    • Liz: fine, but this is utopian to think people can stand up to that. How would you think that works. Start moralising drunk guy in loud mad pub that he shouldn’t rub his belly against that girl or maybe say excuse me ma’am, but could you stop whistling at that young gentleman who is just trying to stay fit and enjoy his run across this sidewalk here?

      Solution is simple, for guys just ignore those things if they bother you, for ladies get yourself a man and keep him close when going out and harassment will most likely end quickly. Avoid dangerous situations and keep common sense, nothing new here I’m afraid.

    • @fizi_water Seriously mate, this is a horrendous argument to make, here’s why.

      For a very basic example, you cannnot advise people not to buy something because owning something means it’ll be stolen. The reason you can’t say it is because it’s a fairly basic right to own what you like to without being subjected to criminality.

      Next greater example, would you argue that a transvestite should not dress as he likes in public if there was hatred against transvestites? I hope not because that is obviously an expression of something they hold integrally important to their self expression. We do not advise them to dress more “normal” because the right the self expression is one that should be at the heart of this republic, and if it is not people should push at that boundary by expressing themselves.

      Finally, a woman or a man can dress how they want, and should not be advised otherwise even if there is vile behavior against them. Because the right to my our own image and the right to bodily integrity is one so great that even mentioning someone should curtail it is horrific. You should be encouraging more people to dress how they want, not less.

      I wrote all this in the hope you might see reason, but then I read “ladies get yourself a man and keep him close”… You need to seriously examine your assumed gender “roles”. Lads aren’t bodyguards and women don’t need them.

    • Conor: all fine mate, but you’re totally utopian. Reality is this is the world we live in and yea it hell helps if woman is with bodyguard type of guy and your right of having golden iPhone in the middle of the night in dodgy estate, it is also nice and your constitutional right, but be advised you will get mugged most likely so take your choice. So here we have what is your entitled citizen right vs what is reality out there. What you say is perfect world and it’ll never be as it is all going actually quite opposite – vicious ruthless and brutal and its all downhill from here I’m afraid. So even if I wanted to be with you on what you said as I genuinely would like to, I’m not naive to try it out I’m afraid.

    • I used to go out clubbing a lot. I gave up going out in Dublin because every night that I went out some dude would come up behind me when I was dancing, put his hands around my waist and start bumping his cock off my ass.
      My response was usually first, dirty look. Second, push the hands off, if that didn’t work, stick my ass out suddenly and knock them back and if they came back I’d turn around and knee them in the nuts. And get a round of applause from the bouncer for doing so.

      I went clubbing in the UK. Not ONCE did this happen. And I was wearing very skimpy outfits, far more skimpy than I ever would have here.. Guys in the clubs and festivals I went to never groped. EVER. They were capable of having a night out and talking to people without harassing anyone.. Granted – there wasn’t usually much alcohol consumed..

      I went to a few outdoor techno parties over here, it never happened there either. Mainly because you needed to know someone who could get you on the list for those gigs, the gropers weren’t approved.

      It’s only certain people who do this – either male or female. It’s the same people who get aggressive. It’s people who just have a bad attitude and are so self centred that they think everyone should just give them what they want.. Perhaps they were spoilt kids who were never encouraged to place themselves in another’s shoes? Who always got what they wanted and as a result grew up expecting this from everyone? It’s about discipline, simple as..

  • Lisa,
    “But if something is so prevalent a problem, how is it that many good men had no idea of its pervasiveness? ”

    Perhaps because it is NOT PERVASIVE? For example. When I was young, and I mean in the mid 80s, it was COMMON for women to grab men by the genitals and cop a feel when the man had his hands full with drinks coming back to the table.

    In return? I NEVER ONCE SAW a man grab a womans breasts in bar the same way women grabbed mens crotches. NOT EVEN ONCE. I have NEVER SEEN a woman sexually harassed in the workplace and I have been working for 30 years. I have seen HUNDREDS of men sexually harassed in the workplace. Sexual harassment by women in the workplace and in public spaces IS PERVASIVE. Why not talk about THAT sexual harassment, eh?

    We recently saw a woman reporter grab David Beckham by the crotch while he was conducting an interview. This was called “funny” by you women. Yet we all know if David Beckham grabbed a woman by the breasts or crotch during an interview that would be called “assault”. Talk about hypocrisy. As one man said to me recently “If it were not for double standards you women would have no standards at all”.

    So no…I do not believe that what you talk of is at ALL “pervasive”. But I will point out that women dressing like hookers and being provocative of men IS pervasive. The way women dress and relate to men would be called “sexual harassment” if a man did it.

    Why don’t you WOMEN deal with OTHER WOMEN before you launch hate filled screeds against the EXTREMELY FEW MEN who might harass a woman and try and make the comment that it is “pervasive”.

    Reply
    • You give out about being discriminated against by women, then proceed to launch into a massive diatribe against women in general – ignoring the fact that there ARE women who believe in equality, that’s what feminism is actually supposed to be about.. Not this, let women work but then automatically assume that they are the best parent for the kids to live with nonsense..

      Thanks for tarring all women with the same brush there mate.. Your hatred for your ex is clearly affecting how you view the world at large.. It’s horrifically narrow sighted..

  • good god. some absolutely shocking comments here. Horrifying actually. And utterly depressing. I’d no idea there was such an overwhelming number of men with absolutely no regard or empathy for women. I too like the writer of this piece have suffered all the incidents she endured and A LOT more. This issue is literally across the board for ALL women to endure this. Yet, most of these men above obviously have women in their lives, and yet still strive to prove that its our fault we’re attacked/molested/groped/harrassed… maybe they should stop promoting the abuse of women and turn around and just ask their female friends and family flat out “have you ever been inappropriately touched/molested/advanced on for no reason”. Maybe that would be an eye opener. Maybe, just MAYBE then a tiny sliver of “maybe I’ve got it wrong” might seep into their brains. Or maybe these men are so base that they genuinely think its just “part of nature” for women to be abused needlessly daily. I feel sick to my stomach having read what I’ve read today. I almost understand why these incidents happen now. Having read the comments, I now see the world is filling up fast with people who have ZERO humanity.

    Reply
  • Lisa,
    this is the usual man hating rubbish that you women like to push. What about all the WOMEN who commit the crimes of perjury, kidnapping, extortion, theft and child abuse in the family courts in Ireland?

    Why do you so called “women journalists” NEVER want to address the crimes of WOMEN. You are a WOMAN. How about you deal with WOMENS issues and WOMENS crimes rather than write such a hate filled screed aimed at MEN, eh?

    I have called for FIVE YEARS for women in Ireland to be held accountable for their CRIMES in the family courts. There is now a declared state of war in Ireland for which I have been repeatedly slandered by your colleague Ali Bracken. But NO woman in Ireland will call for women to be held accountable for their crimes on an equal before the law basis to men. NOT ONE.

    I have sent many lawful notices to the entire membership of the Dail on this specific issue. I have exposed Irish women criminals. And how do the man hating judges in the courts respond? They attempt to suppress the evidence of womens crimes by threating men with incarceration. So how about it? How about you WOMEN talk about how you WOMEN stay silent regarding the crimes of WOMEN? Eh?

    Reply
  • You mean doing ‘make-up’ for 2 hours/day, wearing the newest clothes, sexy shoes, and investing a fortune into your hairs, skins, all just to make you look attractive, young and sexy, finally results into men considering you attractive, young and sexy? Wow, who would have thought of that?

    Reply
  • Maybe Lisa is also projecting. Seriously. (Translated she is pissed off it does not happen to her.) Or impossible?

    Reply
  • judging by lisas photo … jdifgjhdhgdvhzdmdmj key jdnjdbnfnm boards broke ogkjkjjkf… pity :(

New Post
 1/15/2013 12:05 PM
 
So...as per usual it would seem that the mods finally got around to suppressing my comments over on this article...

But there were a few more comments that were made that I responded to....and which I could not add. They are below.

New Post
 1/15/2013 12:06 PM
 
 Modified By host  on 1/15/2013 1:08:22 PM

Jesus, Peter would you give it a rest already? 0_o you’re honestly scary at this point.



To which my reply that did not go through was.

Eleen

"Jesus, Peter would you give it a rest already? 0_o you’re honestly scary at this point."

Gee Eleen...by mens standards you must be very much a coward.

You are "scared" over words on a computer screen? So much for the claim that when a woman says she is "fearful of a man" she is to be given any credibility at all.

Care to explain to everyone here what you find so "scary" at this point?

Here's the thing. I have lost count how many times men with guns have pointed those guns at me. I stopped counting after the first 30 or 40 times. So men pointing guns at me does not scare me. I guess you are not "equal" to me then, right?

New Post
 1/15/2013 12:06 PM
 
 Modified By host  on 1/15/2013 1:07:45 PM


@ Eileen, totally agree, it important for men and women to stand together and break these myths and stereotype. I’m a male preschool worker of 20 years. less than 1% of my profession are male, but some of our biggest advocates are our female advocates are our female colleagues who seem the importance of positive male role models in their lives and the need to break stereotypes of what it means to be a man. regards, Mick




To which my reply was.

"Mick Kenny

@ Eileen, totally agree, it important for men and women to stand together and break these myths and stereotype."

Mick,

if I may ask you a question. Can you explain to me why it is you think you should "stand together" with people who openly support criminal acts by women against men and child abuse against children?

My position is that I deliberately STAND APART from those who peddle lies, deceit and openly condone crimes and support criminals. I want nothing to do with such people. Indeed my position is to denounce such people not join with them. After all, sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas, right?

I would also put the question to you that given the FACT that I called on women to "stand together" with men to hold women criminals accountable for crimes for a period of more than TWO YEARS (08/09) and I was roundly hated on for doing so, why would I invited them back after they have made it crystal clear they do not wish to stand for truth, justice and freedom?

Remember. In October 2009 I called on the 300 women of the Irish Free Man Society, a society that has common law as it's proposed remedy for the crimes of the guvment, to form an all womens court and an all womens jury to put my wife on trial. The only condition I set was that the remedy the women came up with was the same remedy us men would apply when the sexes were reversed. Equality before the law was the SOLE condition. Women were free to show me how they would "stand together" for truth, justice and freedom.

Of the 300 only THREE agreed to work on creating the all womens court and all womens jury. One of those three said so in public and was viciously verbally attacked by MANY of the other women. She was shocked and amazed at how viciously she was attacked. Another friend of mine, a grandmother, has also reported many vicious attacks on her by other women for supporting me. Her situation is that her daughter refuses to let her see her grand child so she is in the same boat as many men. Hence her support.

So I would really like you to explain here in public why it might be that any man would consider "standing together" with people who openly condone crimes and child abuse. Can you do that please? It would be much appreciated.

I wish only honest men of honour and integrity to stand together with me in the process of re-introducing the rule of law into Ireland. They are VERY hard to find by the way. The criminals and those who condone crimes can stand aside. I want nothing to do with them as we go through this process. Why would I involve someone who condones crimes in the process of re-introducing the rule of law? They can only damage the process.

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