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ForumForumDiscussionsDiscussionsIgnorMANus Parent ForumIgnorMANus Parent ForumName and Shame ...Name and Shame ...Simon Heffer Man Hater and Editor of Right Minds on the Daily MailSimon Heffer Man Hater and Editor of Right Minds on the Daily Mail
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 1/18/2012 3:22 AM
 
Gentlemen,
The meat is in the replies below.

There was an article on the Daily Mail about that italian cruise ship sinking asking the question "What happened to women and children first". Obviously what happened was feminism and the family courts.

I put some posts onto the site that were 110% TRUTHFUL. Naturally the women got upset. They particularly got upset about how I stated that since women wanted equality I would be quite willing to hit a woman under the same circumstances as I would hit a man. This was FALSELY labeled as "promoting violence against women".  I was banned. The email is below.

This is MAN-HATRED on behalf of Simon Heffer.

I name SIMON HEFFER as a MAN-HATING IgnorMANus for allowing me to be BANNED for taking the position that I will treat women with TOTAL EQUALITY to men.

It is sexism, discrimination,  biggotry of the FIRST ORDER to ban a man for TREATING WOMEN AS THE EQUALS THEY DEMANDED TO BE. 

Simon Heffer is the editor of this section. He is solely responsible for the standard of comments in his section of the newspaper and he is SOLELY responsible for censorship and banning in his section unless he can PROVE that he has been instructed be his editor to ban someone.

I will get men to post into this area of the daily mail noting that Simon is a MAN-HATER and that he has been exposed on CAF.
New Post
 1/18/2012 3:23 AM
 
From: moderation@dailymailonline.co.uk
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 5:30 PM
To: peter@peternolan.com
Subject: User has been banned.
Hello,

Your account has been permanently de- activated for going against the Community Guidelines.

You are no longer allowed to post on the Daily Mail or other Associated Newspapers Ltd sites using this or any other user. Please be advised that should you post again we reserve the right to contact your ISP/employer and seek that action is taken against you.

Regards,
Senior Community Editor
Daily Mail

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This is an automated message from MailOnline.

New Post
 1/18/2012 3:26 AM
 
To make my BANNING even MORE hypocritical? Here is what another man had to say.

So. According to another man there are a MILLION fathers who know how I feel and they are TOTALLY with me and these are GREAT WORDS but MAN HATER SIMON HEFFER want to BAN ME and SILENCE ME and CENSOR ME for SPEAKING THE TRUTH and TREATING WOMEN WITH TOTAL EQUALITY.

SIMON HEFFER IS A TOTAL HYPOCRITE.


Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, there are a million fathers who know how you feel, we are TOTALLY with you, great words. Our number is growing every day, women just don't get it, with situations like this sinking, they will start to think.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/art...
New Post
 1/18/2012 3:27 AM
 


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/art...

Whatever happened to women and children first?

By A N WILSON

Last updated at 8:42 AM on 17th January 2012


The tragedy of the wrecked cruise liner, the Costa Concordia, with its dreadful loss of life and hideous memories for the terror-stricken crew and passengers, has appalled all of us.

It would now seem as though the accident was avoidable, and this makes it all the more horrifying for everyone who lived through what one crew-member called a 36-hour nightmare.

One of the features of the disaster that has provoked a great deal of  comment is the stream of reports from angry survivors of how, in the chaos, men refused to put women and  children first, and instead pushed themselves forward to escape; and how the Italian crew ignored passengers and reportedly shouldered their way past mothers and pregnant women to get into lifeboats.

Tragedy: As the shock of the Costa Concordia disaster begins to die down there has been anger from some passengers at the behaviour of some of the men on board during the evacuation

When the Titanic went down in April 1912, the Captain’s orders were: ‘Women and children first!’

Although this legendary edict was never part of maritime law, it was adhered to so strictly on the Titanic that men were actually stopped from boarding lifeboats, many of which went to sea only three-quarters full.

There were only a few exceptions to the unvarying tales of heroism: three men in steerage who disobeyed the rule — Italians, coincidentally — were shot.

The chivalry was reflected in survival rates: 74 per cent of the women were saved; 52 per cent of the children; and just 20 per cent of the men.

It meant that Titanic’s sinking quickly became the stuff of mythology. The Chairman of the White Star Line, Joseph Bruce Ismay, who was on board the liner and did escape in a lifeboat, was branded a coward by the world’s Press for leaving the Titanic while there were still women and children on board. 

Nellie Taft, wife of the U.S. President, mounted a campaign to raise funds for a monument that would be inscribed: ‘To  the brave men who gave their lives that women and children might be saved.’

Example: The chivalry displayed by the men on board the Titanic was reflected in survival rates

The Daily Mail, in an editorial of April 17, 1912, claimed that it was The Law of the Sea that: ‘Those who are saved are not the strong and able-bodied but the weak and the dependent — not the grasping millionaire from the private suite on the promenade deck, clutching a roll of bank-notes . . . but the defenceless wives and sisters and children.’

Yet surprisingly, perhaps, such an attitude provoked sharp responses from early feminists, who believed that ‘women and children first’ infantilised women, and it gave rise to the slogan ‘Votes not Boats’ for the female sex.

The Mail published several feminist ripostes to its celebration of chivalrous behaviour on the Titanic.

Flora Annie Steel — a forgotten name now, but a famous author in 1912 — wrote a poem in the paper saying that the men who perished in the Titanic disaster achieved a mercifully quick death and instant glory whereas their wives were left to grieve and fend for themselves. ‘Women and children last! That is the law of the land.’

Lady Aberconway, also in the pages of this paper, questioned whether there was any such ‘fine tradition of the sea, as “women and children first” ’. She was right to say that the idea was, in fact, quite recent — but then, so was the idea of women and children in large numbers finding themselves at sea at all.

There were countless cases not so long before the Titanic sank in which soldiers and sailors displayed an utter disregard for the notion of protecting women and children, and there still exists many a seaman’s first-hand account of such behaviour,

 

After the Pegasus ran aground in 1843 against rocks off the Northumberland coast, one survivor wrote of how ‘the stewardess attempted to get hold of me, but I extricated myself from her in order to save my own life’.

Likewise, a survivor from the Northfleet, which sank in the English Channel in 1873, described meeting clusters of women on deck as the ship went down, but said: ‘I did not stop to speak to them for I was looking towards the boats, thinking I might get hold of one of them yet.’

He was asked by a mother to save her baby, but later recorded coldly: ‘I could not do anything. For I felt the last had come.’

As many as 293 souls drowned when the Northfleet went down, and of the survivors, 83 were men compared to just one woman and two children.

The wreck of the London, an emigrant ship which sank near  Plymouth in 1865, is especially shocking — of the 258 on board, only 19 survived, none of  them women.

One survivor later talked of ‘the horror of being in the company of nearly frantic girls and women, who thought that every roll would be the last’.

'Stand fast!' During the sinking of HMS Birkenhead in 1852, the troops on board were ordered by Lieutenant-Colonel Seton (right) to allow women and children to disembark first
'Stand fast!' During the sinking of HMS Birkenhead in 1852, the troops on board were ordered by Lieutenant-Colonel Seton (right) to allow women and children to disembark first

'Stand fast!' During the sinking of HMS Birkenhead in 1852, the troops on board were ordered by Lieutenant-Colonel Alexander Seton (right) to allow women and children to disembark first

When manning the pumps to get rid of the water flooding the hull, he noted he was ‘much happier here, away from the women, for seeing so many frightened had made me feel worse’.

It seems that the seafaring command about women and children being first to board lifeboats originated with the sinking of HMS Birkenhead off the coast of South Africa in  1852. The ship was carrying 480 British troops and about 26 women and children.

When the ship foundered, the soldiers’ commander told his men to ‘stand fast!’ and allow women and children to make use of the few lifeboats on the vessel. 

Some women did not want to go on their own — they had to be torn away from their husbands, carried over to the bulwark and dropped over the ship’s side. Most of the soldiers and sailors aboard drowned or were eaten by sharks, but all the women and children survived, and the  chivalric ethos became known as the Birkenhead Drill, celebrated in a Rudyard Kipling poem,  Soldier An’ Sailor Too:

To take your chance in the thick of a rush, with firing all about

Is nothing so bad when you’ve cover to ’and, an’ leave an likin’ to shout;

But to stand and be still to the Birken’ead drill is a damn tough bullet to chew,

An’ they done it, the Jollies — ’Er Majesty’s Jollies — soldier an’ sailor too!

The notion of women and children first reached its apogee in the late Victorian and Edwardian eras, for the idea that women are weak and need protecting by males went hand-in-hand with the belief that women should be excluded from positions of responsibility.

Knights errant: The chivalry of Edwardian heroes such as Captain Scott (pictured) is today seen as old-fashioned

Mark Girouad, a great social and architectural historian, in his book on Chivalry In Victorian And Edwardian England, says the ‘chivalric’ treatment of women was part and parcel of the Victorians’ cult of the ‘gentleman’ and the ‘amateur’.

The great heroes of the Edwardian and pre-World War I days, such as Captain Scott, were passionate amateurs, and saw themselves as knights errant, women as damsels in distress.

But in our day, with the advent of feminism and  the professional woman, chivalry and manners are considered stuffy and old-fashioned.

As the father of three daughters, I do not, with a single fibre of my being, wish to go back to a time when women could not have the vote or get a university degree. Nor do I, surrounded by extremely strong-charactered and intelligent women in my family and among my friends, feel tempted to regard women as the frail sex.

But the fact remains that there is a longing among most men to protect women and children, and chivalry is simply a manifestation of that longing.

And whatever transpires about the reason for the Costa Concordia disaster, the disappearance of a chivalric code is a sorry reflection on society today.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/art...
New Post
 1/18/2012 3:30 AM
 

Here's what other readers have said. Why not add your thoughts, or debate this issue live on our message boards.

The comments below have not been moderated.

Page 1 of 2

Womens lib may change some of them but it does not change me. Call me old fashioned but once a gentleman always a gentleman.

Click to rate     Rating   1

My son's life is worth every bit as much as any woman's. I would expect him to be treated fairly and not asked to die.

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I wholeheartedly agree in the view of women being my equal. however, there is an innate, almost primal urge within me to be a protector, especially of women, children and the elderly. Any man, I feel, who does not possess this is either terribly selfish or something like a sociopath. I don't think it's a matter of whether you're a 'man' or not a 'man', it's just whether you are good.

Click to rate     Rating   1

@Tifa Lockheart I'm hungry, get back home/to the bar and make me a sandwich... well jk, but why the hell FFVII? I agree with most of anti-feminist/anti-post-feminist-society commentators, having most of the entries. Whether Wilson is a man or not doesn't matter, feminism has castrated some men, making them feel deigned to put most women on a pedestal, thinking that they somehow owe women many things..

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Yesterday's Mail featured a piece with a photo of two burly female boxers knocking seven bells out of each other. "Women and children first" is an outmoded concept. Children first, definitely, but women can take their chances along with everyone else. They have fought furiously for equality, and now they have got it they can queue with the men.

Click to rate     Rating   14

- John, London, UK, 17/1/2012 16:09...............Bless you John. Do you wither so in the face of logic, reasonable debate & common sense that you feel you need to lower yourself to name calling? That's almost adorably sweet. It must hurt you so to know that I also disagree with "Women first2 & yet can't see why certain people feel the need to attack certain other people. That must blow your mind. After all, all women are the same aren't they (Does that also not mean that all men are too?I don't believe that. I think men are their own people, not to be put in a box, they are gloriously diverse characters to be celebrated) So go ahead John, I know you're not done & you won't have a reasonable response so chuck a few more petty insults & nasty names at a person you know nothing about other than their (rather reasonable) opinion on one subject & the fact they like 90's computer games. Go on, you know you want to. Toodles TL :) x

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@ Lynn, Sittingbourne, 18/1/2012 0:56. Shaming language doesn't work on me honey. I only deal with facts and logic.

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Let's set the plebs attacking each other to deflect from we bankster types, then they won't look into how we wrecked the economy, the old divide and rule, never fails. Get the DM onto it pronto

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Fatima Whitbread before Willie Carson?

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Tifa, you are just another arrogant, selfish, spoiled hypocrite western woman. Who gives a DAMN what you think? Second, you are obviously a real loser, living in your own little Final Fantasy 7 world if you run around calling yourself Tifa and that you are from Midgar. Get off your computer/Playstation, and get a life, you loser.

Click to rate     Rating   8

Any "man" who would save his own neck and leave women and children behind is a COWARD and not a "man" at all.

Click to rate     Rating   17

It's bizarre that there is a forum in the world where a person advocating violence against anyone & asserting that "THAT is what women are like. They will demand men and children die so that they may live. FACT." (Obviously untrue, I know no women that would "Demand" men die for them) can get green arrows & yet posts pointing out that some readers have made an error in assuming A N (NOT "Ann") Wilson is a woman (absolutely true. A N Wilson is a man) can be red arrowed. Then I realised I'd inadvertantly strayed onto Right Minds! Now it all makes sense. So sorry. You lot know what you know & no amount of fact based evidence, arguements to the contrary or good ole common sense is gonna make you abandon your prejudices. As you were. I guess at least we know where to find you.

Click to rate     Rating   16

Why should women and children go first? After all, GENDER EQUALITY is one of the defining values of our modern society. Women wanted equality, so fine. Now we treat them as equals to us men. Therefore, why should men be left behind to die, if both genders are equal? Does anyone see the massive hypocrisy here? If you women want to be equal, then ACTUALLY FOLLOW IT! Don't claim equality only when it suits you. Women have become such horrible HYPOCRITES! And sorry, but western women have treated me like crap for my whole life. Why should I die for them? They mean nothing to me! They want equality, fine. You can stay behind and die. What have you western women ever done for me? So actually, I believe that a MAN'S LIFE IS MORE VALUABLE THAN THE LIFE OF A WESTERN WOMAN! So, LEAVE THE WOMEN BEHIND! FINE WITH ME!

Click to rate     Rating   24

It always seems to be women that get to the front of any queue. Just watch the boarding on any Ryanair flight.

Click to rate     Rating   16

Look up misogynist in the dictionary - Lynn, Sittingbourne, 17/1/2012 14:56 

You look up misandrist.

Click to rate     Rating   27

AN. Wilson. “As the father of three daughters”…they can be taken away from you at any time for no reason at all. If a false allegation that you have molested one of your daughters is made by ANYONE then you will be immediately barred from seeing them and only allowed “supervised access” to your daughters under the watchful eyes of a feminist social worker. Millions before you have suffered that fate. If you “complain” that your children were kidnapped with no evidence of any wrong doing on your part you are obviously just “bitter” and “angry” and you will be ordered to do “anger management” classes that you have to pay for. Of course. If you were accosted by a crack head mugger in the street who wanted to kidnap one of your children you would be expected to fight to the death to protect your child. If you do not you are a “coward” and a “

Click to rate     Rating   16

"Flora Annie Steel — a forgotten name now, but a famous author in 1912 — wrote a poem in the paper saying that the men who perished in the Titanic disaster achieved a mercifully quick death and instant glory whereas their wives were left to grieve and fend for themselves. ‘Women and children last! That is the law of the land.’" Im absolutely certain Flora would of been unhappy had any man instead taken the place of his wife and family.

Click to rate     Rating   4

On the contrary, it's a sorry reflection on the way that women have chosen to conduct themselves. They have chosen an idiotic and totally bogus so-called Equality over Chivalry. They've made their bed and now they must lie in it.. "Because I'm Worth It!" No, you're NOT!

Click to rate     Rating   19

Chaz Bono would have saved the women, he's a real "man".

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An Wilson, you are pathetic. Your childish outrage is a shoddy facade for your insulted narcissism. Women are strong and powerful equals, but not at the expense of the privileges to which you feel entitled? Women like you who cry about about your new-found equality still believe your lives are somehow special, that a woman's life is worth more than a man's life simply because she was born a woman. How conceited are you and your ilk to believe that others are obligated to die so that you might live? Why should people be expected to die for you? You should be embarrassed of yourself. - Andy, Philadelphia, 17/1/2012 0:29 ------------------------------------------------ Andy this made me laugh where you are addressing An Wilson! Its actually A.N. Wilson - who happens to be a man!! By the way you sound really bitter!

Click to rate     Rating   1

Very Angry Brisbane... Look up misogynist in the dictionary

Click to rate     Rating   18

Well, the concept of the physically stronger helping the physically weaker to get to safety first, as Mr. Wilson showed with only a few examples, was more the exception than the rule even during the 19th and early 20th centuries, the big era of mass passenger sailings. The jolly Jack Tars who took over the boats during many a shipwreck and left the women, children (and weaker men) standing on the deck to drown had one important thing in common with the burly Italian sailors on the Concordia and the bitter, feminism-hating, my-wife-walked-out-on-me (gee, I wonder why, if you're such a Real Man?), keyboard warriors here in this thread: not being gentlemen. Which is not, and never was, for every man! Fortunately or unfortunately, in modern plane crashes virtually everyone dies, and who goes before whom onto the lifeboat never comes up. As for the feminist-type women who've written to say "don't help me": good on you too, you're living your principles.

Click to rate     Rating   5

What's being missed in all the commentary around the Costa Concordia incident is that for the ship to be allowed to leave port there must be a life boat space allocated to every passenger. No need for pushing and shoving, there’s one for everyone in the audience. Also in the event of an emergency on board ship each member of the crew is allocated a specific task to perform and a specific position to get to, which is practiced repeatedly in safety drills until perfect. Did it ever occur to some commentators that those people complaining about being pushed aside may have been impeding the crew from taking up their positions and putting the lives for their fellow passengers at risk?

Click to rate     Rating   10

To Hellen, North East wow you are naive, what about the feminists' SCUM "Society to Cut Up Men" ?, and other similar ones. They are not real feminists I suppose, or is it NAWALT ? To women in general, real men are disposable, we are there to sacrifice ourselves for them. Well, as a member of the disposable sex due to different genitalia type, i would like to say, YOU HAVE MADE MEN ANGRY NOW, WE BEGIN TO HATE YOU ALL and WILL NEVER SACRIFICE OURSELVES ANY MORE

Click to rate     Rating   8

Hardly BRITISH were they. It looks like the ITALION captain was true to type.

Click to rate     Rating   3

If women are so weak that they need to be catergorised alongside children and given special treatment when a ship goes down, then why are they allowed to serve in the military, police force, fire brigade, rescue services, etc? BIt of a contradiction, eh? If it's not sexist to tell men to die so women who apparently don't have the strength to lift 5 grams of powder then it's not sexist to bar women from jobs that require raw power and strength, is it?

Click to rate     Rating   21

Let women eat cake.

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Feminism happened.

Click to rate     Rating   10

Your companions are the Eagle Sisters, Dianne Abbott, Jackie Smith, Harriet Harman, Teresa May and a single other male who is knowledgeable about cricket and fine wines and tells a good joke. You have a pistol. Discuss - TerenceH. ..... How many rounds in the pistol?

Click to rate     Rating   8

Andy of Hamshire, it is the first time that I have ever applauded a post, brilliant !

Click to rate     Rating   7

THAT is what women are like. They will demand men and children die so that they may live. FACT. - Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, 17/1/2012 14:12 For the last time will you stop tarring all the women in the world with your ex's brush. many women (Including myself) have said that they wouldn't expect or want any preferential treatment I certainly wouldn't expect a man to die for me! How bloomin ridiculous! But as that doesn't suit your agenda you ignore those comments & continue your rant. You are making yourself look foolish & an angry, bitter, hateful, man. Whatever it is she did I'm sure it was horrid. I can't stand any woman who uses her gender to belittle or get the better of a man & using your kids in that way is deplorable & sickening but WE AREN'T ALL LIKE THAT. Please stop saying we are.

Click to rate     Rating   1

A decent man who respects women as equals would still be polite and respectful towards women whatever the situation they found themselves in. - Laura, London, 17/1/2012 12:02 --- Unfortunately Laura an ever increasing number of women don't seem to understand the meaning of the words "Polite" and "Respectful".

Click to rate     Rating   22

It should be children and 'a parent' first Sandra, Leics, 17/1/2012 15:15 No Sandra. Women get custody 90% of the time so child and ‘parent’ first is sexist and discriminatory against men. You said EQUALITY. LOOK UP WHAT IT MEANS. YOU DEMANDED IT and so the onus is on you to know what YOU were demanding. You take care of YOUR children. Us men will take care of ourselves. This is what you demanded. We will risk OUR LIVES for OUR CHILDREN. Not YOUR children. Got it? Now live with it.

Click to rate     Rating   11

To Roger of Poole, if "families" are first , you will get devious women snatching kids and saying that they are the parents. This has been said already

Click to rate     Rating   3

Seems a fair few people on here need to move on from past relationships! OK to hit a woman and actively encouraging young men to do so? Erm - personally I don't see hitting ANYONE as acceptable. Some very worrying statements on this thread - worrying that people hold them, even more so that they boast about them.

Click to rate     Rating   2

We've got equality these days.

Click to rate     Rating   14

What about the women who were pushing children and others out of the way to get to a lifeboat? Don't they get criticised? Oh, wait, they're female - they can do no wrong, of course. So, a few scared men (yes, men are allowed to be scared as well) lost all semblance of decency and just thought about themselves before others. This of course results in men as a whole being lambasted for not being "real men". Women are outraged when it's implied that they should act or behave in a certain way, and to go against that is "empowering". If a man doesn't like being told what to do or how to behave though, he's "not a real man", or a "chauvinist" or a "coward". The hypocrisy is staggering.

Click to rate     Rating   20

You know rather than this men verses woman rubbish being vented here (where does that get us exactly, other than feeling hatred towards other human beings?) how about we all agree to HELP EACH OTHER in this sort of situation. This would include helping those less capable then yourself before getting into the lifeboat. And it would mean ensuring as many people as possible got off the boat rather than just thinking of yourself and barging past people not able to stop you. Anyone who brushes weaker people aside to save themselves should be throughly ashamed - I dont care what gender you are or what pathetic excuse you use to justify such a cowardly action.

Click to rate     Rating   10

Women can't campaign for equality and then expect different treatment when it suits. It should be children and 'a parent' first so as not to (potentially) leave them orphans, and the frail and vulnerable next IMO. This should all be sorted before the ship sails in the event of having to abandon ship, so everyone knows. They have to do roll calls to ensure everyone's accounted for- this would just take it a stage further.

Click to rate     Rating   9

" Women & Children first" ?? I for one don't believe this is appropriate in today's world. Evacuation should be as "families" just the same as families with young children are allowed to board first on planes nowadays. What would also happen if an elderly couple were split up after say 40 yrs together jusy because the man had to stay behind ? It should be families into the lifeboats first based on their "complete" arrival at the muster stations, not wasting time for those who go back to the cabin's to pick up handbags/babyfood/jewellery etc.

Click to rate     Rating   11

We have had 40 years of devaluing males, in the media portraying men as bumbling idiots, and by the government imposing draconian ridiculous laws against men. Now things are changing, feminism is being pushed back, women are going to get an almighty shock. 40 years of "sexual equality" by the state imposing social engineering on us all. This ship sinking should serve as a BIG warning to all the feminists, your denigrating of men is coming to an end soon !

Click to rate     Rating   27

I would take Ann more seriously if she had risked certain death in order to save someone else. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 13:48...................& the world would take you more seriously if you bothered to read the article. Which is written by A N Wilson. He is a man.........Just saying........... - Tifa Lockheart, Midgar, 17/1/2012 14:02 Well noticed. However, the point still stands. I would like to see him accepting death for people he has never met before I take him seriously. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 14:09......Fair enough, point well made.

Click to rate     Rating   3

- ian martin, north yorkshire, 17/1/2012 14:53 Ian. Thank you. Google "Crimes Against Fathers" and consider joining. Tell all your mates. I wish Simon Heffer would sponsor an article about "Crimes Against Fathers". I intend to re-introduce the rule of law in two countries for the benefit of my fellow men. For this I have been HATED ON by women AND MEN for four years. Time to tell the ladies. On a sinking ship? You are ON YOUR OWN. And by the way? Don't expect us men to try and save YOUR children. YOU told us they are YOUR CHILDREN in the family courts. Don't be telling us how they are OUR children on a sinking ship. They are YOUR CHILDREN. YOU FIGURE IT OUT. We are going our own way. If we want OUR children we wont get them by you western women. We will risk our lives for OUR children. Something women NEVER DO. Titanic. 80% of women survived. They got in lifeboats in front of children. THAT is what women are like. They will demand men and children die so that they may live. FACT.

Click to rate     Rating   11

I would take Ann more seriously if she had risked certain death in order to save someone else. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 13:48...................& the world would take you more seriously if you bothered to read the article. Which is written by A N Wilson. He is a man.........Just saying........... - Tifa Lockheart, Midgar, 17/1/2012 14:02 Well noticed. However, the point still stands. I would like to see him accepting death for people he has never met before I take him seriously.

Click to rate     Rating   5

This has nothing to do with equality or chivalry - but is a reflection of modern lifeboat safety procedures. I attended a training course on lifeboat safety as part of my training for work on yachts and this was very clearly explained to me. A modern lifeboat is made of very lightweight materials - similar to a tent. When this is thrown in the sea it is utterly unstable and likely to tip over - especially in rough seas. However, a few large hefty crew members or male passengers going in first will set the boats deep in the water and provide the stability for others to get in (at greater comfort and lower risk).

Click to rate     Rating   11

"A man is more likely to be able to save themselves than a woman." David, Southend, 17/1/2012 13:35. Unsubstantiated rubbish! There are some areas of life where women have an advantage over men. For example, women are more buoyant than men are better equipped to ward off hypothermia because they have more body fat. Don't try telling me that's not a huge advantage when stranded out at sea. That means fat women should be the last ones put on the boat. Skinny men and bodybuilders should be the first to go on the boat.

Click to rate     Rating   18

I would take Ann more seriously if she had risked certain death in order to save someone else. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 13:48...................& the world would take you more seriously if you bothered to read the article. Which is written by A N Wilson. He is a man.........Just saying...........

Click to rate     Rating   1

REmind me all you feminists...... EQUAL means? some more than others?

Click to rate     Rating   16

I will say that any man who feels he has the right to assault a woman is a coward and a bully. Women are still and always will be physically weaker than men. We cannot fight back so if we annoy you so much just walk away.- Lynn, Sittingbourne, 17/1/2012 14:42 So what do you call a woman who assaults a man DEMANDING the privilege of not being treated AS AN EQUAL so as to be protected? I call her a coward. You women claimed equality so being smaller and weaker is YOUR PROBLEM. Not ours. How about you women NOT be so obnoxious, not hit us, not steal from us in the first place eh? What makes you think you can claim EQUALITY and then be obnoxious, hit us, bite us, punch us, attack us with knives, steal from us and then say WE should walk away. By the way? Its hard to walk away when the woman doing these things is your WIFE. 5% vs 95%. Remember.

Click to rate     Rating   12

Women and children first - no. Children first - yes. They are smaller, weaker swimmers and wouldn't survive in cold water for as long. I would be horrified in adults pushed past small children to get on the boats.

Click to rate     Rating   14

It should be children, elderly and handicapped first. Nuff said.

Click to rate     Rating   7

"Women are still and always will be physically weaker than men. We cannot fight back so if we annoy you so much just walk away." I had no idea that the 7 foot women in the WNBA and 350 lb female weightlifters were physically weaker than the 5'5" 120lb men who ride horses at the Melbourne Cup... On that's right, you're speaking about men and women in general. Now if a man were to speak about men and women in general then he's be met with "not all women are like that, stop generalising!"

Click to rate     Rating   19

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, there are a million fathers who know how you feel, we are TOTALLY with you, great words. Our number is growing every day, women just don't get it, with situations like this sinking, they will start to think.

Click to rate     Rating   12

I remember reading many years ago that women and children first was replaced by families first. The reasoning behind this was so that the family and the family's breadwinner were saved. No benefits in those days.

Click to rate     Rating   11

How can men push the mighty female out of the way? Women possess "Girl Power" they can over power any man with ease. Please don't patronise women by thinking they are weak, they are not. They are strong, real strong, they don't need the government and it's agencies to protect them at all. Nope. Women are strong and independent and can survive without any special consideration given to them. And if they can't? Well then they simply weren't "woman" enough to survive.

Click to rate     Rating   15

Why do so many vicious women come on here to libel men? All they're capable of doing is making stupid assumptions about the men who discuss women's treatment of men. If that's their only retort these women can come up with then it suggests the men are onto something and have struck a nerve.

Click to rate     Rating   6

"then women and children, who tend to be smaller and weaker" - Elisabeth, Chicago, USA, 17/1/2012 2:35 Elisabeth. YOU WOMEN claimed "equality" not us men. So it is YOUR problem if you happen to be smaller and weaker. MEN do not give special privilege to other MEN who are smaller and weaker. A fully healthy man who is 160 to 170cm will NEVER ask a fully healthy and fit man who is 180-200cm for a special privilege. Indeed the smaller man may have to work out harder and learn more skills to make the grade. Consider basketball or NFL football. You think the big guys cut the small guys slack just because they are smaller and weaker? On an oil rig you think a smaller man gets cut slack for being smaller? No. When I was about 14 (34 years ago) the girls would say "when we grow up we are going to be equal to men". Even then I asked "Are you stupid? Women have it MUCH better than me. Why would you give up those privileges?" They called me an MCP. Now you are seeing the result.

Click to rate     Rating   15

I would take Ann more seriously if she had risked certain death in order to save someone else.

Click to rate     Rating   11

I've always hated that saying, why are women and children more important than men? There is no right or wrong way of evacuating a ship, aside from the Captain a) sinking it and b) leaving before everyone else. I say first come first served should be the general rule, then leave it up to the individual if they want to let someone in front. Though if I had my way, all chavs would be left ON the sinking ship :)

Click to rate     Rating   7

We are still waiting for equality, men and women, so, put the children first. I will say that any man who feels he has the right to assault a woman is a coward and a bully. Women are still and always will be physically weaker than men. We cannot fight back so if we annoy you so much just walk away.

Click to rate     Rating   5

Feeling victimized, downgraded, sidelined eh? Poor didums.... - Vicki, London, 17/1/2012 14:35 And young men? This is how women will talk to you if you work for 25 years, raise 4 kids, buy two houses, and become one of the top professionals in the world in your area only to be criminally victimised in the family courts. This comment is the very epitome of the hatred you will experience. Heed it well. This could be you in 25 years. Let the women fend for themselves. They said they were equal.

Click to rate     Rating   14

All the angry men are out today eh? Hope these angry little rants makes you feel better. Feeling victimized, downgraded, sidelined eh? Poor didums....

Click to rate     Rating   11

Equality in the workplace and life is not the same as respect and decency. Women are not second class citizens and in many respects are equal to or superior than some men in the workplace. But that does not mean that I would not respect a woman. Manners and common decency are on the decline. but we can all show some respect. My wife is my match in every way mentally but not physically. She can open her own door, but I choose to do that for her. I choose to stand aside and let her pass, or walk on the outside of the pavement. She is the Mother of my children and I will protect her and my children where I can. Women and children should be rescued first. A child without is Mother is far more harmful than the father. A man is more likely to be able to save themselves than a woman. Chivalry and decency do not need to be a victim of female emancipation.

Click to rate     Rating   9

Its common human decency!! - Sarah , UK, 17/1/2012 11:42 Sarah. There is no common human decency shown towards men in the family courts. Don't be expecting to try and make men 3rd class people on a sinking ship using the lie of "common human decency" when you have already made them third class people in the family court on dry land. We all know a "family" is now "the woman and HER children". Men are sperm donors and ATM. It is what women demanded and you got the legislators to give it to you. You women called "equality" where the mother has custody 90% of the time and uses the children as a weapon against the father. Now you want men who have seen all that to sacrifice their lives for WOMENS families and WOMEN AND CHILDREN FIRST. Sorry. That ship has sunk. Deal with it.

Click to rate     Rating   11

My late father and father-in-law both fraught against the Italians in WW2. I was often regaled by tales of how, when the going got tough, the Italian troops either put up the white flag or scarpered so I'm not surprised that the Italian captain did the same. - STEVE HARRISON, MALVERN, WORCESTERSHIRE, 17/1/2012 8:54 It never seems to occur to people like you that perhaps Italians didn't want to fight in WWII because they didn't believe in it. Perhaps you should look up the history of WWI to see that they fought as bravely as anyone else.

Click to rate     Rating   16

A ray of hope that some men are starting to fight back against misandrist western societies. Keep it up lads!

Click to rate     Rating   9

Feminism happened, be careful what you wish for.

Click to rate     Rating   15

Very strange trolling comments from some of the Dailymales "Well you wanted feminism & equality, you got it now stop whining" obviously spoiling for a fight & then the ladies, using much nicer language go & pop their bubble by agreeing & not whining at all. Go back, read the posts & check. You'll find more posts from women saying agreeing with your point, than there are disagreeing (it's the same on the other "women & children first" story), the vast majority of women think it's an outdated concept. Yet a certain type of bloke imagines that we are all outraged by this concept, possibly even WANTS us to be outraged so that he has more to rail against & beat his fists into the wall. Of course they're wrong, I & most of the other female posters see no reason at all why an able bodied woman should be valued over an able bodied man, but some of the guys seem to assume we're all really bitter about it, sorry but I see it as just the way it is & also the way it should be.

Click to rate     Rating   2

To all those who are calling the mens comments "hostile". As a man who was criminally victimised in the FC having my children kidnapped and 95% of assets sent to my ex? I have stood up for a community supported path to justice for FOUR years. I have been HATED ON by women AND MEN alike. I tell all the lads "5% is the new 50%". I tell them EXACTLY how women have treated me. And then I let them make up their own minds. The lads are making up their minds that our women are liars and hypocrites because they said they wanted equality when what they demand is privilege. And this incident is showing you how men think now. They think women deserve no extra privileges. They have enough already in the FC alone. Ladies. Your mothers made your bed for you. Now you will lay in it. Or....you could actually help men like me.

Click to rate     Rating   7

You are now going to be treated equally. And that means LIKE WE TREAT MEN. We can hit you when you are obnoxious. - Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, 17/1/2012 13: What a disgusting thing to say. It shows what kind of person you are.

Click to rate     Rating   2

My life is not worth any less than that of a woman. . - Michael Steane, Maddington Australia, 17/1/2012 Frankly I'd say it depends on the woman and your whining suggests most of us are better than you.

Click to rate     Rating   23

Humble apologies for the horrid typos & mangled grammar (Note to self, proof read posts!)

Click to rate     Rating   1

As a (reasonably) fit, young (ish!) woman I wouldn't expect anyone to prioritise me over them. However though we cannot know until we find ourselves in this situation we cannot know how we would react but I'd like to think I'd put the needs of the more vulnerable ahead of my own, that, for me includes preganant women, the elderly, disabled & kids. If you wouldn't, that's up to you, you're the one who has to live with it.

Click to rate     Rating   13

As a single, childless woman, I would not automatically expect precedence over a father with children. The cry of "PARENTS and children first!" is perhaps more apt these days. Most of us, at a basic level, would expect those seen to be in most need of urgent assistance for whatever reason - frailty, disability, small children etc - to automatically be first to be protected and saved. (This idea was famously disproved when Eamon Holmes hid behind the slender female presenter of the live lotto programme during a noise stage invasion......)

Click to rate     Rating   2

Whatever happened to women and children first ? Well most sane beings still put children first , but what happened to putting women first ? Feminism

Click to rate     Rating   24

It should be done on age... Youngest first through to oldest and if all the children on a lifeboat are under a certain age then an adult or two should accompany them (how this would be determined im not sure yet). Women before men in this day and age only causes discrimination talk...

Click to rate     Rating   10

I think the world moved on from those apparently good old days.

Click to rate     Rating   8

Women want equality so why do they feel entitled to respect on demand or preferential treatment. It should be children first ( they haven't had their lives yet ) - then everyone else for themselves. Why should I stand back and put my family second for bolshy women I don't even know - no way.

Click to rate     Rating   32

Feminism happened. It took our jobs, our children, our freedom and our dignity.------------- Before feminism, we had no jobs. If we got divorced, we couldn't see our children, as we were thought unfit to raise them. If we wanted to enjoy a little freedom we could not; we had to be chaperoned as it was thought we needed a man's protection. All we had was dignity. Who says they are YOUR jobs? Who says they are YOUR children? Why is it wrong for you to be disadvantaged, but it was perfectly fine when it was happening to me? Oh, that's right, I got a few chairs pulled out for me. And since most of the comments down here seem to be along the lines of "You got what you wanted, feminists".. We know. We did want equality, and we want it regardless of whether or not it benefits us. To those that think feminism and misandry are the same thing: feminism wants men and women to be treated EQUALLY. No-one calling themselves a feminist would argue that a woman's life is worth more than a man's.

Click to rate     Rating   10

Never read so much bile towards women. How would any of you heroes feel if your wife/mother/daughter was drowned because some able-bodied man pushed her out of the way. Andy in Philadelphia..women are not strong and powerful, I reckon you and I would survive outwith a lifeboat much longer than any woman.

Click to rate     Rating   7

A. N. Wilson, just checking the date with you, you do know its 2012 don't you?, not 1912. Perhaps a gentle reminder to you A. N. that not all of us want to live with that rose tinted view of the past that you seem to want to.

Click to rate     Rating   9

We should, all salute the brave coast guards and divers who helped in the rescue and are searching the ship, they are true heroes

Click to rate     Rating   36

Equality has nothing to do with chivalry and a respect for women. A lot of men use the 'women wanted equality' as an excuse to be selfish and rude, simple as that! A decent man who respects women as equals would still be polite and respectful towards women whatever the situation they found themselves in.

Click to rate     Rating   31

It is not fare on the children or infirm, but surely speaking as a woman, this is what we asked for in our quest for equality. We cannot have it both ways.

Click to rate     Rating   23

Children should go first,but not women as they want to be equals they should receive no special treatment unless they only want equality as and when it suits them which is what they do want.

Click to rate     Rating   18

Must be illegal, surely, to discriminate on the grounds of age or sex.

Click to rate     Rating   19

Common decency should overide the PC brigades diktat, can you imagine all the to do, if you were asked if you had done a risk assessment, had a string of criminal checks to see if you were able to speak to a child, whilst the boat was sinking and children needed saving. Well? As for some of our MP's I would use them as stepping stones to save the more important members of society, Joe Public

Click to rate     Rating   17

Having waited patiently on the quayside in Amalfi and then been part of the unedifying rolling maul of pushing and shoving to get ON the ferry to Capri, I shudder to think of the mayhem as people fought to get OFF the stricken ship. I'm not being funny, but all over the continent our concept of waiting your turn and queuing is completely alien. It's no surprise to me then that it was more "every man (woman and child) for himself" rather than our quaint notion of "women and children first".

Click to rate     Rating   44

For goodness sake! At the end of the day we are all equal! The Captain is a coward and by that I mean he did not attempt to help anyone - male or female - and he will have to live with the consequence of his actions for the rest of his life.

Click to rate     Rating   11

TerenceH, Rochester, UK, 17/1/2012 07:04 +++++++++++ Hand me the pistol, fully loaded I hope ?. - Roy, IoW Nr. England, 17/1/2012 11:33 Hard to find fault in the basic thought process, providing there were no children on board it would be a no brainer.

Click to rate     Rating   4

Equality means just that, being equal. So therefore no perks like first in the lifeboat !! Feminists wanted and pushed for this so don't complain now.

Click to rate     Rating   24

SOS - The Female Birkenhead Code ;- Save Our Shoes - menhavehadenough, lincs, 17/1/2012 8:48---------------------------Scatches head in bewilderment.

Click to rate     Rating   22

Whilst I totally understand people moaning about women wanting equality and then expecting to be off the boat before the men, I firmly believe pregnant women, families and vulnerable adults should be first off. Its not chivalrous, its common human decency!!

Click to rate     Rating   35

Your saying women and children first that a sexists comment to start with as a father and single parents of three children do single women with no children have more preference then me,if so why

Click to rate     Rating   40

OK, so you are on a sinking ship. There is one lifeboat. Your companions are the Eagle Sisters, Dianne Abbott, Jackie Smith, Harriet Harman, Teresa May and a single other male who is knowledgeable about cricket and fine wines and tells a good joke. You have a pistol. Discuss. - TerenceH, Rochester, UK, 17/1/2012 07:04 +++++++++++ Hand me the pistol, fully loaded I hope ?.

Click to rate     Rating   41

My life is not worth any less than that of a woman. With all the pro female legislation, in the name of equality of all things, I am not going sacrifice my life for the perverted concept of chivalry. George Haley says that it has nothing to do with physical size, it has to do with looking after those too young to survive without parental support. In most emergencies the better parent to provide that support would be the father, so it should be "men and children first." Sorry, women, but men have had enough of your incessant demands for privilege which you call equality. And to those of you who will say you have not supported these demands, I say too few of you have stood against man-haters for this to matter very much.

Click to rate     Rating   15

I've never understood this edict....not on grounds of equality, but on the simple idea of keeping families TOGETHER! Escaping from a sinking ship must be traumatising enough.....adding loss of loved ones, let alone at the time of the Titanic, the principal family breadwinner, to me seems ludicrous!

Click to rate     Rating   4

Feminists wanted equality. Well, you've got it. Now stop complaining.

Click to rate     Rating   47

Italian captain abandons ship.He probably was scared to get his hair wet. LOL. I am not surprised.Italians are so vain.

Click to rate     Rating   17

Women only have themselves to blame, they wanted equality, seems they got it. Social Services probably wouldn't allow the children to get on the lifeboats without a guardian or parent either.



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New Post
 1/18/2012 3:31 AM
 

Here's what other readers have said. Why not add your thoughts, or debate this issue live on our message boards.

The comments below have not been moderated.

Page 2 of 2

Women only have themselves to blame, they wanted equality, seems they got it. Social Services probably wouldn't allow the children to get on the lifeboats without a guardian or parent either.

Click to rate     Rating   39

I would like to ask Elisabeth from Chicago, If you think it all boils down to physical size, should it be women before small men then ? Many of the crew on the Concordia were from Philippines and Peru, small men. If it was women WITH children first, devious women used to post feminist impunity would steal kids from drowning parents, no doubt STOP UNDERVALUING MEN !

Click to rate     Rating   39

My late father and father-in-law both fraught against the Italians in WW2. I was often regaled by tales of how, when the going got tough, the Italian troops either put up the white flag or scarpered so I'm not surprised that the Italian captain did the same.

Click to rate     Rating   55

SOS - The Female Birkenhead Code ;- Save Our Shoes

Click to rate     Rating   25

All the contributors harping on about women and equality, ok I see the picture but let us not throw out the baby with the bath water. The expression is women AND Children, first. ___ It has nothing to do with equality it has everything to do with looking after those that are too young to survive without parental support. If you want equality change the call to Children and one supportive parent first!

Click to rate     Rating   25

For all those who -from the safety of their computer chair - are advocating women and children first, or those who are bravely declaring that they would sacrifice themselves so that weaker/younger/older/less able people could be saved, I recommend you to wait until you are actually on a sinking ship before you decide. Reality is different.

Click to rate     Rating   44

If women want (no demand) equality, they must take equality, warts and all.

Click to rate     Rating   45

...and the shaming tactics being used against men! Why are women more privileged than men? Equality? Just look at this website, anyone notice the "Femail" section for women only? Why? Because women want special treatment! No matter how many times we point it out to women, they would pretend not to notice! Yea sure, women, we all know!

Click to rate     Rating   97

Yes it is the feminists to blame, it is them who blame men for women suffrage and it is feminists who collectively kick men out of the household. And to women who only value men for how much men can contribute financially, I say..it's every man for himself! Actually, it is still the children go first! That's where I draw the line. It is BS to still think that children "needs" mothers! It doesn't apply here. No, sorry, if you are a woman in that cruise, the world does not wait for your decision on what to do with your own reproductive freedom.

Click to rate     Rating   38

OK, so you are on a sinking ship. There is one lifeboat. Your companions are the Eagle Sisters, Dianne Abbott, Jackie Smith, Harriet Harman, Teresa May and a single other male who is knowledgeable about cricket and fine wines and tells a good joke. You have a pistol. Discuss.

Click to rate     Rating   118

The angry single male keyboard-bashers are up early today, I see. It's nothing to do with feminism, it's based on the fact that in a free-for-all, men's greater physical strength would result in the trampling and probable death of the (traditionally physically weaker) women also involved. A.N.Wilson is a bloke, by the way - before you start crashing your heads into the keyboard even more.

Click to rate     Rating   25

It seems to me that the feminists should have been more careful in what they wished for.

Click to rate     Rating   109

Who is the author of this to say that a womans life or a childs is worth more than a mans? As a (childless) woman, I would do anything I could to save the life of a a child but as far as able bodied women and men go, while the responsibility is there to try to help save another beings life it is also there to save their own. On the face of it yes it does seem cowardly as the report says to 'push past' others in an effort to save yourself but try to put yourself in that positon. You also have a responsibilty to save yourself for you, your family and friends.There will always be survivors and people who don'tmake it in tragic stories like this, but we need to know why it happened, so it does not happen again, and grieve for the loss of those who did not make it ashore. All life is important and men deserve the same value as women especially if women expect the dignity to be treated the same as men.

Click to rate     Rating   43

In this article lies the hypocrisy of women and the modern feminist movement. Women today demand equality...but only where "equality" benefits THEM in some way. Somehow they have managed to engineer a situation in which they obtained equal rights, but without accepting the equal responsibilities which go with those rights, and without surrendering any of the privileges they enjoyed in the era before feminism. Hence, it is still considered exclusively the man's responsibility to make the first move, still the man's place to make all the effort to make a relationship work, still up to the man to propose marriage, and still the man's place to lay down his life in battle, or give up his place in the lifeboats, so that women may live. So much for "equality"...

Click to rate     Rating   137

I am female and see no reason why women should have priority over men. Children or anyone holding an infant or child get first dibs, yes, and then it should be first come, first served. My mother also reckons elderly passengers should automatically stand back and allow younger persons a fighting chance first. She would give up her lifeboat space for anyone thirty years younger than her.

Click to rate     Rating   34

While decrying the death of chivalry the author has chosen to neglect to mention that all those confirmed as dead so far have been a man. That women were also pushing past children in their panic to get to a life boat. This article falsely equates women and children when they are not the same, do women not equally have a duty to attempt to save children? Yet the passenger complaints of other women pushing past children and pregnant women are not included in this article. In the end the majority of those lost in this tragedy will be men, and yet we will still have articles like these announcing the end of manhood as though the value of a man is in his willingness to sacrifice himself for a woman's survival.

Click to rate     Rating   105

Women and children first was from the same era as the cap doffing mindset that sent millions over the top to their pointless deaths in the trenches of the Somme. Now it's all me me me

Click to rate     Rating   44

What happened? Feminism happened. It took our jobs, our children, our freedom and our dignity. It denigrated, and lied, until we were little more than dirt in the eyes of society, unpleasant and expendable individually, though useful macroscopically. In an age of guilty till proven innocent, where law is bent subjectively to suit any purpose, a slow realisation and attitude of resentment is sweeping throughout the psyche of the captor, conscious for some, but present for most. Your conviction in this is irrelevant; expect more examples of denial of female privilege, gradually escalating, until something significant changes.

Click to rate     Rating   126

Women can't have it both ways , although they always try to. If women guided by the fevered Feminazis want equal rights with men then they must take equal risks and equal exposure to danger. So therefore be treated equally when abandoning ship. Children of course need the assistance of BOTH genders.

Click to rate     Rating   35

I thought this was an interesting and well-researched piece. Nobody is saying that women's lives are more worth saving than men's lives. The main issue is that if the evacuation descends into a free-for-all, in which the strongest and pushiest are given the opportunity to force themselves into the lifeboats first, then women and children, who tend to be smaller and weaker, will be trampled and left behind. I don't think the author is arguing that women should be saved at the expense of men. He (it's a GUY, Andy, so stop hyperventilating please) is saying that it is deplorable for men to PUSH AHEAD of weaker, smaller people who are trying to get off a sinking boat. Especially when we're talking about children. Surely everyone can agree that children should get priority in a situation like this?

Click to rate     Rating   20

Exactly what I was going to write!

Click to rate     Rating   11

UH so sorry Ann but I would be just like the guys that pushed ahead and jumped onto the lifeboats. This is because I dont see my life or my son's lives as "less important" simply because we are born male. Its insulting for you or anyone else to think because you were born with the sacred vajaja that somehow entitles you to the PRIVILEGE of being able to get onto the lifeboats first. Check your privilege Ann feminist.

Click to rate     Rating   78

An Wilson, you are pathetic. Your childish outrage is a shoddy facade for your insulted narcissism. Women are strong and powerful equals, but not at the expense of the privileges to which you feel entitled? Women like you who cry about about your new-found equality still believe your lives are somehow special, that a woman's life is worth more than a man's life simply because she was born a woman. How conceited are you and your ilk to believe that others are obligated to die so that you might live? Why should people be expected to die for you? You should be embarrassed of yourself.

Click to rate     Rating   84

Why should men have to sacrifice themselves in order to save women? What makes women's lives more worthy of saving then men's lives?

Click to rate     Rating   150


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/art...
New Post
 1/18/2012 5:37 AM
 
Here is the comment I posted there, and it has gotten a 28 rating, and is in the top 30 most popular comments:

Why should women and children go first? After all, GENDER EQUALITY is one of the defining values of our modern society. Women wanted equality, so fine. Now we treat them as equals to us men. Therefore, why should men be left behind to die, if both genders are equal? Does anyone see the massive hypocrisy here? If you women want to be equal, then ACTUALLY FOLLOW IT! Don't claim equality only when it suits you. Women have become such horrible HYPOCRITES! And sorry, but western women have treated me like crap for my whole life. Why should I die for them? They mean nothing to me! They want equality, fine. You can stay behind and die. What have you western women ever done for me? So actually, I believe that a MAN'S LIFE IS MORE VALUABLE THAN THE LIFE OF A WESTERN WOMAN! So, LEAVE THE WOMEN BEHIND! FINE WITH ME!

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/art...
New Post
 1/18/2012 6:32 AM
 
And by the way...look at THIS hateful comment....this woman claims she is BETTER than the man and implies she is more deserving of living and this is NOT removed under hate speech.

My life is not worth any less than that of a woman. . - Michael Steane, Maddington Australia, 17/1/2012 Frankly I'd say it depends on the woman and your whining suggests most of us are better than you.



So I sent THIS reply off to report abuse.

Why am I banned for promoting equality and equal treatment of men and women and this women is clearly demeaning a man and claiming to be superior. Tell Simon Heffer he should look here. We are outing him as the MAN-HATER he is.
http://www.crimesagainstfathers.com/australia/Forums2/tabid/369/forumid/193/threadid/1470/scope/posts/Default.aspx

New Post
 1/18/2012 8:52 AM
 
And here are more comments....notice that virtually ALL of them are pro male and explain that what has happened is feminism...

The ship is going down so everyone must make for an orderly and fast exit via the lifeboats. That means first come, first served. We're not going to line people up on the deck and start a selection process based on "value" or "physical weakness". Imagine a crew member guarding the lifeboats "Yes you ma'am, not you sir, you grandma, you little boy", etc. Its first come, first served for all - man, woman, elderly, disabled or child. All humans are of equal value. That is the fairest and quickest way to evacuate a sinking ship.

Click to rate     Rating   2

It's strange that the women whining that men 'only want to save their own skins' are the same ones demanding that women's skins be saved instead. Another ruse is to claim that women will look after the children. As shown by the dreadful events of the Titanic sinking, a higher proportion of women than children survived. Looks like a lot of women were more interested in their own skins than their children's on that awful night.

Click to rate     Rating   5

I'm amused that we hear, on the one hand, that men other than a "bitter minority" have a "primal urge" to protect women but on the other hand, without the "equal" ladies getting those lifeboat privileges, most men would shove and push aside everyone in a primal urge to grab seats at all costs and cause loss of life... Aren't rationalizations wonderful? If we were to really do this "equal" by "feminist" definitions, then "positive discrimination" would require the men to go first to make up for previous discrimination...

Click to rate     Rating   5

some of the men were not only determined to get off first, they were actually pushing and shouldering their way past women and pregnant women in order to get into the lifeboats. Women have quite rightly fought to have equality with men and not many expect the old courtisies like giving up seats and opening doors, but I think we all recognise that physically we are different (which men are usually glad of) and in any similar situation to this, women would not be able to fight the men off and save themselves. That alone is a good reason in my opinion for letting the women go first - so they don't get trampled on by men with only one priority saving ytheir own skins.

Click to rate     Rating   6

If we need a rule can it be to chuck all the men hating feminists overboard first. - Ken, Essex, 17/1/2012 18:57 Only if we can chuck all the male misogynists along with them, and that's my final word on it for tonight. I'm now going to take a peak at my little grandchildren who are sleeping over tonight, and thank my lucky stars that they are safe and sound tonight.

Click to rate     Rating   5

I admit to making a few flippant comments, but really on a modern ship, I'm pretty sure it would be sensible and practical to exit in an orderly fashion. I don't think it's a good idea to start sorting and assessing who should go first. The thing about the Titanic is that it was meant to be unsinkable and consequently didn't have the lifeboats to get everyone off. So they needed to prioritise. Yes ladies the men did die in significant numbers to ensure the women and children got off first (that actually happened). But I do wonder if the outcome would have been any different if women had been in charge.

Click to rate     Rating   4

I wholeheartedly agree in the view of women being my equal. however, there is an innate, almost primal urge within me to be a protector, especially of women, children and the elderly. Any man, I feel, who does not possess this is either terribly selfish or something like a sociopath. I don't think it's a matter of whether you're a 'man' or not a 'man', it's just whether you are good. - John Severino, Gainesville, United States, 17/1/2012 17:07 Thank you for that comment John, I think the same applies to women too, most of us want to protect us others, including men - I wouldn't walk past anyone who needed help. It's made me realise that I must not rise to the bait of what is being written in these comments as they have been taken over by a very and bitter minority.

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- Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, 17/1/2012 13:15 What an angry and bitter man - of course, we only have your word for it that you are an injured party through no fault of your own, don't we? - Chris, Herts, 17/1/2012 21:19 Actually Chris. No. We dont. Peter has published all the court documents, a video of the court meeting, the transcript, the court order, his notices to prime ministers and presidents. The whole lot. He has proven these criminal acts.

Click to rate     Rating   7

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, there are a million fathers who know how you feel, we are TOTALLY with you, great words. Our number is growing every day, women just don't get it, with situations like this sinking, they will start to think. - ian martin, north yorkshire, 17/1/2012 13:53 And what about all the fathers who don't give a d**n about their children? My daughter has struggled on her own for years, and a lot of my potential future financial security has never been realised because of the amount of money and time I have spent in supporting my grandchildren when it should have been their father's job. But apart from this one post I have never mentioned it or complained - I just get on and do it. Oh, and it's only recently the shoe has been on the other foot because until then, women, and children were literally the property of the man and often ill treated. And if I were on a boat and saw an injured man, I wouldn't push past him and leave him if I could help.

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Headline : "Whatever happened to women and children first?" Like the young boys in 1912 who drowned on the Titanic while unrelated adult and elderly women fitfully commandeered lifeboat seats for themselves? Newsflash: It's 2012. Whatever happened to equality? The oppressed are still required by society to sink to the seabottom during times of shipwreck. However, with government feminism my rightful claim to a lifeboat seat is as a result of my being equal to women now. As such it's time to rescind all female favouring policies and bureaucracies. Unless similar action is undertaken on behalf of men.

Click to rate     Rating   5

- Anti-Feminist, Greenville, USA, 17/1/2012 1:09 And another American who thinks AN Wilson is a man. The author of thise piece is Andrew Norman Wilson - a British writer and newspaper columnist of many years standing. You may not like his views, but he is entitled to hold them. And to all you men who have written over the last couple of days that you would put yourselves before women and children - I take it you have no children? If your children were on a cruise with their mother or grandparents and you wren't with them - you'd be happy for men to push past them and not even try to help them. Would you? Really?

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For me it is self evident that women and children go first, and then to be honest everyone left can go before me. There is no soul on the face of the planet that I would see die so I could survive. No man, woman or child is greater than me, but equally they are not less than me. The only life I can choose to sacrifice is my own, and I would gladly do so if it would save another. I'd equally rather never have to ,but I cling to the hope that in a time of need I would be equal to the challenge.

Click to rate     Rating   5

- Andy, Philadelphia, 17/1/2012 0:29 Andy, I almost hate to disabuse you of your notion that AN Wilson is a woman - very sorry, but he is in fact a man - your comment made me laugh out loud.

Click to rate     Rating   4

All life is equal, I don't care if you're a man, woman or child. If I were faced with such a desperate situation I would probably try to save myself, unless I knew and loved someone else on the ship who might die otherwise. Chivalry is a nice idea, but should never be used to value the life of a woman or child higher than a man. Instead, it should be limited to nice gestures like men holding open doors for women and such.

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If we need a rule can it be to chuck all the men hating feminists overboard first. - Ken, Essex, 17/1/2012 18:57 Only if all you misogynists go first! (And I'm not a man hating feminist, although I may change my mind after reading this debate.)

Click to rate     Rating   16

I do think that men should let "women and children first". But isn,t it odd that ardent feminists suddenly think they should be treated differently when danger threatens. They castigate men for holding doors open for them or offering seats on the bus or tube but as soon as danger threatens its " oh! poor me!". The same is true of many aspects of life. How many women have protested at preferential treatment in pension legislation? They are even campaigning to halt the change in men and womens pension age rules. I believe in equality but not that women should have it both ways.

Click to rate     Rating   38

Have had a think...NO...STILL cant see why men feel its preferable for them to be saved before children. Unbelievable really. Have fun boys with your little red arrows :)

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We have to remember that when the Titanic went down, boys were classed as men from the age of 12 years. This meant that boys were deprived of lifeboat places to accommodate women. There can be no logical reason for such discrimination, it was shameful. I suggest that in future, children (under 18) get automatic priority. There is no need to load their mothers with them, the elder children can look after the younger ones, also there will be some crewmen aboard to keep order and man the vessel. After the children's boats have set off, adults of both sexes would be free to help others or fend for themselves according to their consciences.

Click to rate     Rating   23

Truly ashamed by comments from big strong men who wish to see children perish before themselves. Disgusting but pretty typical of the awful comments you read on here.

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I cannot get my head around peoples prejudices when it comes to life or death survival. To all those saying that equality means they would abandon humanity for the sake of petty prejudices seems so benal. I would hope and trust that in the circumstances the people would act decently and let the children, women and old go first and then cope with their own survival. It is common decency. Me, me, me is the downfall of the modern society. The man who pushes in front of children and women would be the first to scream if others did that to his children and family in the same circumstances.

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Children first, of course, the physically disabled, yes, mothers with young children OK, but adult women should be treated exactly the same as men, surely that is what the feminists have shoved down our throats for over 40 years. - Colin, Irvine, Scotland, 17/1/2012 18:44". Colin, I think you have the right answer - I'd help any people I could and give priority to the young/Mothers/less able but wouldn't give up my place for an able bodied women with no child. I'm sure no feminists would ever consider giving up their places out of principle...oh no.. :)

Click to rate     Rating   22

Despite the seriousness of the situation, something funny stands out: Compare and contrast the attitudes of the author and the women here and in real life to programs popular in the states and perhaps Britain as well such as Xena, Warrior Princess or Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Anjolina Jolie films. The women are all tough, intelligent, and even stronger than the men. Then a shipwreck happens and Reality sets in! Same thing with the author's daughters: No doubt they'll be equal career women when they and their husband are earning big bucks and have tons of money to make the mortgage but let the husband lose his job and career woman responsible for the bills, indefinitely. This is often happening and it's destroying families almost as much as women riding off in lifeboats without saying a peep while their husbands remain behind to drown. How little our society values traditional men and yet how much it needs them!

Click to rate     Rating   31

If women fail to behave like ladies, they have absolutely no right to expect men to behave like gentlemen. What goes around comes around. Treat men properly and many will still respond in kind.

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Tifa,Yorkshire,Sorry,but if you are not against injustice then you are for it,you can take the time to write,saying"we aren't all like that"as most feminists do,the trouble is that ,when the occasion arises you take advantage of those injustices,do nothing about them because it suits you and then write garbage.

Click to rate     Rating   15

The top comments protest too much, methinks. Reading between the lines, what we have here is a number of men who, in their hearts, are truly ashamed that able-bodied adult males pushed past children to board the lifeboats -- but it's easier to deflect the blame onto women and 'feminism' than it is to admit their fellow men were wrong and worse, were cowards. This is very straightforward psychology.

Click to rate     Rating   17

When quantity must go, save quality. In any disaster in which not everyone can survive, the best people should survive. Let every bottleneck, every population setback, raise the average quality of humankind, and not reduce it as a policy of saving the weak, the frail, the handicapped, the congenitally botched would do. Morality is properly about the survival and the betterment of the groups which observe it. A moral system in which sentimental altruism is regarded as the foremost consideration is actually a rather nasty perversion, owing to its rather nasty longterm consequence: extinction.

Click to rate     Rating   5

I was thinking that children and the elderly or disabled should obviousley be first, then men and women who are equally able to look after themselves. Then I thought that even if I was a younger woman, in a crowd of big strong men, who being heavier and physically stronger than me, were pushing and shoving, then I would not stand a chance. If a child was with both parents, then I am sure the father would say the mother should go with their child. And the rest of the adults should be evacuated in an orderley way. But of course the pushing and shoving would go on and women would loose. People in general are more selfish than they used to be.

Click to rate     Rating   8

Titanic Survival Rate by Class: 

1st Class
Men: 34%
Women: 97%
Children: 86% 

2nd Class
Men: 8%
Women: 86%
Children: 100% 

Steerage (3rd Class)
Men: 13%
Women: 49%
Children: 31% 

Staff & Crew
Men: 21%
Women: 91%
Children: Boys classed as men 

Total Number Perished
Men: 1339
Women: 114
Children: 56


Source: RMS Titanic: Passenger and Crew List, 1912 (H. Soldner), White Star Line official list, 1912 

You should note that the lowest survival rate for women was in Steerage (49%) and the highest survival rate for men was in 1st Class (34%). Therefore a wealthy man was much more likely to die than the poorest female. You should also look at the miserable survival rate for men in 2nd Class. Apart from in 2nd Class, women had a higher survival rate than children.

Click to rate     Rating   27

The author appears ready to jump into the water and drown himself just to prove how chivalrous he is and how he loves his wife and daughters. But do his wife and daughters love him? He clearly regards women are entitled beings who should have everything but it's not clear that they care about him. It's no wonder then that in a post-feminist and hyper-chivalrous world where men are regarded with such contempt that much of society is coming apart? Why don't feminists just throw baby boys into the ocean and let them drown rather than waste money raising them?

Click to rate     Rating   20

Reading many of these comments makes me very happy that I'm the mother of three sons. I would hate to have brought a daughter into a world where such a large proportion of men seem to hate and despise women.

Click to rate     Rating   16

If we need a rule can it be to chuck all the men hating feminists overboard first.

Click to rate     Rating   19

Remember the crew of the Newlyn Lifeboat - RIP, they never quit tryng to save children in appalling weather conditions. They were real men and heros, but sadly they all perished trying to save others. They will never, ever be forgotten.

Click to rate     Rating   16

Children first, of course, the physically disabled, yes, mothers with young children OK, but adult women should be treated exactly the same as men, surely that is what the feminists have shoved down our throats for over 40 years.

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- Andy, Philadelphia, 17/1/2012 0:29 ....... - Anti-Feminist, Greenville, USA, 17/1/2012 1:09 ....... - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 13:48 .... and others ........ A. N. (Andrew Norman) Wilson is an English writer and newspaper columnist, well known for his critical biographies, novels, works of popular history and religious views. Making incorrect assumptions about the author's gender gives the impression that you have merely skimmed through the article without evaluating it and are just using this thread to air your prejudices.

Click to rate     Rating   3

Who cares it's not often ships go down that we need a convention and most people escaped in this instance. The real issue of "Equality" is in the Secret Family Courts in this country more people are likely to be hit by this. More men are likely to be a discriminated against there, so yet again men come second. We are more ape like than we care to admit. Female apes live in groups and chase out males once they reach puberty so women focusing on themselves and children is nothing new. Its Fatherhood that needs to be protected.

Click to rate     Rating   23

The problem really is that this could have been a totally safe evacuation, in shallow waters near a harbour. Instead there was chaos as the evacuation led itself and the captain was already in a taxi running away from the scene. Someone should have had the guts to lead a safe evacuation and stay until everyone was off board. For what its worth, my husband and i are equals in everyway such as education, careers and finance. He is no chauvanist but i am absolutely certain he would insist i leave with the children safely in my arms while he stayed behind to help others. This doesn't make me weak or him old fashioned but its the measure of him as a man!!

Click to rate     Rating   3

This article presents a fantasy world. The era of the Titanic also contains WWI, a disaster of unprecedented proportions which saw millions of men sent to their deaths in the most unpleasant and futile way urged there by women who handed out white flowers to men they felt were shirking. The reality of the conflict was hidden from these men by a lying and deceitful press. The passengers of the Titanic were duped into thinking that rescue was at hand and letting the women and children off first was fine to do, the men would follow later. Later it was realised that it would have been better to let families stay together. As it was many of the lifeboats were prevented from going back to look for survivors for fear of being swamped. Another perception that was untrue. The one person to be taken form the water alive was a woman who could barely hold on. The cold fact is that no ones life is worth more than another, and a family's duty is to itself.

Click to rate     Rating   29

In a situation of panic I guess its only natural for anyone regardless of gender to want to save their own skin, no-one wants to drown, this isn't like getting off a packed tube. Personally I think children and disabled people should get priority above any able bodied adult. Heaven forbid, if I was in that situation I would not leave my husbands side we would face whatever outcome together. Incidently he would be the first to let people go before him.

Click to rate     Rating   12

To Luke Goodman - Think you should wait until you can spell before you take any cruises and be faced with such a problem of women and children first - it is quite simple -spelling that is - understanding how fear evokes fight or flight a lot more complicated probably too complicated for you dear

Click to rate     Rating   3

Sorry, but I would have stayed and helped others off and, yes, women and children would have been my first priority. The reaction of some "men" here is nothing short of pathetic. Just goes to show you what living in a society that makes you rely on benefits does to the male psyche.....it neuters you. Life isn't about getting even or only taking part in something because you think it's "fair". If people are in trouble you should do what you can to help them out, not stand around and whine about how it's not really your responsibility or complain that women don't deserve help because of previous "feminism".

Click to rate     Rating   1

What is often overlooked about the whole 'bravery shown by those on the Titanic' blah blah is that while many women and children were placed on lifeboats before men, CLASS mattered, and most of the women and children were NOT from the steerage class.

Click to rate     Rating   6

I'm a physically fit woman with a commanding personality who is calm in a crisis. Thankfully I have never been tested in a life-threatening situation, but I like to think, at least, that I would be put to better use helping to get weaker people off the boat first -- be they male or female, young or old -- than just getting myself out of there because I'm a "girl".

Weaker people, whoever they are, create obstacles and hold up rescues. Stronger people, be they male or female, should take account of this and work to get the weaker people out of the way first. Strikes me as simple common sense.

Click to rate     Rating   23

So you got a famaly a Mum, Dad and a child about 6 or 7 if we invock the women and children first rule then yes the the mum and child get off but the dad might not and then the mum has lost here husband and is a single parrant and the child has lost ther farther and grows up withou there farther. Some how I thank it is a mutch mutch better if the whole family get off togather

Click to rate     Rating   3

Womens lib may change some of them but it does not change me. Call me old fashioned but once a gentleman always a gentleman.

Click to rate     Rating   4

My son's life is worth every bit as much as any woman's. I would expect him to be treated fairly and not asked to die.

Click to rate     Rating   23

I wholeheartedly agree in the view of women being my equal. however, there is an innate, almost primal urge within me to be a protector, especially of women, children and the elderly. Any man, I feel, who does not possess this is either terribly selfish or something like a sociopath. I don't think it's a matter of whether you're a 'man' or not a 'man', it's just whether you are good.

Click to rate     Rating   11

@Tifa Lockheart I'm hungry, get back home/to the bar and make me a sandwich... well jk, but why the hell FFVII? I agree with most of anti-feminist/anti-post-feminist-society commentators, having most of the entries. Whether Wilson is a man or not doesn't matter, feminism has castrated some men, making them feel deigned to put most women on a pedestal, thinking that they somehow owe women many things..

Click to rate     Rating   14

Yesterday's Mail featured a piece with a photo of two burly female boxers knocking seven bells out of each other. "Women and children first" is an outmoded concept. Children first, definitely, but women can take their chances along with everyone else. They have fought furiously for equality, and now they have got it they can queue with the men.

Click to rate     Rating   35

- John, London, UK, 17/1/2012 16:09...............Bless you John. Do you wither so in the face of logic, reasonable debate & common sense that you feel you need to lower yourself to name calling? That's almost adorably sweet. It must hurt you so to know that I also disagree with "Women first2 & yet can't see why certain people feel the need to attack certain other people. That must blow your mind. After all, all women are the same aren't they (Does that also not mean that all men are too?I don't believe that. I think men are their own people, not to be put in a box, they are gloriously diverse characters to be celebrated) So go ahead John, I know you're not done & you won't have a reasonable response so chuck a few more petty insults & nasty names at a person you know nothing about other than their (rather reasonable) opinion on one subject & the fact they like 90's computer games. Go on, you know you want to. Toodles TL :) x

Click to rate     Rating   23

@ Lynn, Sittingbourne, 18/1/2012 0:56. Shaming language doesn't work on me honey. I only deal with facts and logic.

Click to rate     Rating   29

Let's set the plebs attacking each other to deflect from we bankster types, then they won't look into how we wrecked the economy, the old divide and rule, never fails. Get the DM onto it pronto

Click to rate     Rating   4

Fatima Whitbread before Willie Carson?

Click to rate     Rating   16

Tifa, you are just another arrogant, selfish, spoiled hypocrite western woman. Who gives a DAMN what you think? Second, you are obviously a real loser, living in your own little Final Fantasy 7 world if you run around calling yourself Tifa and that you are from Midgar. Get off your computer/Playstation, and get a life, you loser.

Click to rate     Rating   16

Any "man" who would save his own neck and leave women and children behind is a COWARD and not a "man" at all.

Click to rate     Rating   46

It's bizarre that there is a forum in the world where a person advocating violence against anyone & asserting that "THAT is what women are like. They will demand men and children die so that they may live. FACT." (Obviously untrue, I know no women that would "Demand" men die for them) can get green arrows & yet posts pointing out that some readers have made an error in assuming A N (NOT "Ann") Wilson is a woman (absolutely true. A N Wilson is a man) can be red arrowed. Then I realised I'd inadvertantly strayed onto Right Minds! Now it all makes sense. So sorry. You lot know what you know & no amount of fact based evidence, arguements to the contrary or good ole common sense is gonna make you abandon your prejudices. As you were. I guess at least we know where to find you.

Click to rate     Rating   39

Why should women and children go first? After all, GENDER EQUALITY is one of the defining values of our modern society. Women wanted equality, so fine. Now we treat them as equals to us men. Therefore, why should men be left behind to die, if both genders are equal? Does anyone see the massive hypocrisy here? If you women want to be equal, then ACTUALLY FOLLOW IT! Don't claim equality only when it suits you. Women have become such horrible HYPOCRITES! And sorry, but western women have treated me like crap for my whole life. Why should I die for them? They mean nothing to me! They want equality, fine. You can stay behind and die. What have you western women ever done for me? So actually, I believe that a MAN'S LIFE IS MORE VALUABLE THAN THE LIFE OF A WESTERN WOMAN! So, LEAVE THE WOMEN BEHIND! FINE WITH ME!

Click to rate     Rating   40

It always seems to be women that get to the front of any queue. Just watch the boarding on any Ryanair flight.

Click to rate     Rating   25

Look up misogynist in the dictionary - Lynn, Sittingbourne, 17/1/2012 14:56 

You look up misandrist.

Click to rate     Rating   42

AN. Wilson. “As the father of three daughters”…they can be taken away from you at any time for no reason at all. If a false allegation that you have molested one of your daughters is made by ANYONE then you will be immediately barred from seeing them and only allowed “supervised access” to your daughters under the watchful eyes of a feminist social worker. Millions before you have suffered that fate. If you “complain” that your children were kidnapped with no evidence of any wrong doing on your part you are obviously just “bitter” and “angry” and you will be ordered to do “anger management” classes that you have to pay for. Of course. If you were accosted by a crack head mugger in the street who wanted to kidnap one of your children you would be expected to fight to the death to protect your child. If you do not you are a “coward” and a “

Click to rate     Rating   24

"Flora Annie Steel — a forgotten name now, but a famous author in 1912 — wrote a poem in the paper saying that the men who perished in the Titanic disaster achieved a mercifully quick death and instant glory whereas their wives were left to grieve and fend for themselves. ‘Women and children last! That is the law of the land.’" Im absolutely certain Flora would of been unhappy had any man instead taken the place of his wife and family.

Click to rate     Rating   8

On the contrary, it's a sorry reflection on the way that women have chosen to conduct themselves. They have chosen an idiotic and totally bogus so-called Equality over Chivalry. They've made their bed and now they must lie in it.. "Because I'm Worth It!" No, you're NOT!

Click to rate     Rating   37

Chaz Bono would have saved the women, he's a real "man".

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An Wilson, you are pathetic. Your childish outrage is a shoddy facade for your insulted narcissism. Women are strong and powerful equals, but not at the expense of the privileges to which you feel entitled? Women like you who cry about about your new-found equality still believe your lives are somehow special, that a woman's life is worth more than a man's life simply because she was born a woman. How conceited are you and your ilk to believe that others are obligated to die so that you might live? Why should people be expected to die for you? You should be embarrassed of yourself. - Andy, Philadelphia, 17/1/2012 0:29 ------------------------------------------------ Andy this made me laugh where you are addressing An Wilson! Its actually A.N. Wilson - who happens to be a man!! By the way you sound really bitter!

Click to rate     Rating   2

Very Angry Brisbane... Look up misogynist in the dictionary

Click to rate     Rating   44

Well, the concept of the physically stronger helping the physically weaker to get to safety first, as Mr. Wilson showed with only a few examples, was more the exception than the rule even during the 19th and early 20th centuries, the big era of mass passenger sailings. The jolly Jack Tars who took over the boats during many a shipwreck and left the women, children (and weaker men) standing on the deck to drown had one important thing in common with the burly Italian sailors on the Concordia and the bitter, feminism-hating, my-wife-walked-out-on-me (gee, I wonder why, if you're such a Real Man?), keyboard warriors here in this thread: not being gentlemen. Which is not, and never was, for every man! Fortunately or unfortunately, in modern plane crashes virtually everyone dies, and who goes before whom onto the lifeboat never comes up. As for the feminist-type women who've written to say "don't help me": good on you too, you're living your principles.

Click to rate     Rating   10

What's being missed in all the commentary around the Costa Concordia incident is that for the ship to be allowed to leave port there must be a life boat space allocated to every passenger. No need for pushing and shoving, there’s one for everyone in the audience. Also in the event of an emergency on board ship each member of the crew is allocated a specific task to perform and a specific position to get to, which is practiced repeatedly in safety drills until perfect. Did it ever occur to some commentators that those people complaining about being pushed aside may have been impeding the crew from taking up their positions and putting the lives for their fellow passengers at risk?

Click to rate     Rating   15

To Hellen, North East wow you are naive, what about the feminists' SCUM "Society to Cut Up Men" ?, and other similar ones. They are not real feminists I suppose, or is it NAWALT ? To women in general, real men are disposable, we are there to sacrifice ourselves for them. Well, as a member of the disposable sex due to different genitalia type, i would like to say, YOU HAVE MADE MEN ANGRY NOW, WE BEGIN TO HATE YOU ALL and WILL NEVER SACRIFICE OURSELVES ANY MORE

Click to rate     Rating   19

Hardly BRITISH were they. It looks like the ITALION captain was true to type.

Click to rate     Rating   1

If women are so weak that they need to be catergorised alongside children and given special treatment when a ship goes down, then why are they allowed to serve in the military, police force, fire brigade, rescue services, etc? BIt of a contradiction, eh? If it's not sexist to tell men to die so women who apparently don't have the strength to lift 5 grams of powder then it's not sexist to bar women from jobs that require raw power and strength, is it?

Click to rate     Rating   40

Let women eat cake.

Click to rate     Rating   10

Feminism happened.

Click to rate     Rating   21

Your companions are the Eagle Sisters, Dianne Abbott, Jackie Smith, Harriet Harman, Teresa May and a single other male who is knowledgeable about cricket and fine wines and tells a good joke. You have a pistol. Discuss - TerenceH. ..... How many rounds in the pistol?

Click to rate     Rating   13

Andy of Hamshire, it is the first time that I have ever applauded a post, brilliant !

Click to rate     Rating   7

THAT is what women are like. They will demand men and children die so that they may live. FACT. - Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, 17/1/2012 14:12 For the last time will you stop tarring all the women in the world with your ex's brush. many women (Including myself) have said that they wouldn't expect or want any preferential treatment I certainly wouldn't expect a man to die for me! How bloomin ridiculous! But as that doesn't suit your agenda you ignore those comments & continue your rant. You are making yourself look foolish & an angry, bitter, hateful, man. Whatever it is she did I'm sure it was horrid. I can't stand any woman who uses her gender to belittle or get the better of a man & using your kids in that way is deplorable & sickening but WE AREN'T ALL LIKE THAT. Please stop saying we are.

Click to rate     Rating   2

A decent man who respects women as equals would still be polite and respectful towards women whatever the situation they found themselves in. - Laura, London, 17/1/2012 12:02 --- Unfortunately Laura an ever increasing number of women don't seem to understand the meaning of the words "Polite" and "Respectful".

Click to rate     Rating   36

It should be children and 'a parent' first Sandra, Leics, 17/1/2012 15:15 No Sandra. Women get custody 90% of the time so child and ‘parent’ first is sexist and discriminatory against men. You said EQUALITY. LOOK UP WHAT IT MEANS. YOU DEMANDED IT and so the onus is on you to know what YOU were demanding. You take care of YOUR children. Us men will take care of ourselves. This is what you demanded. We will risk OUR LIVES for OUR CHILDREN. Not YOUR children. Got it? Now live with it.

Click to rate     Rating   16

To Roger of Poole, if "families" are first , you will get devious women snatching kids and saying that they are the parents. This has been said already

Click to rate     Rating   7

Seems a fair few people on here need to move on from past relationships! OK to hit a woman and actively encouraging young men to do so? Erm - personally I don't see hitting ANYONE as acceptable. Some very worrying statements on this thread - worrying that people hold them, even more so that they boast about them.

Click to rate     Rating   4

We've got equality these days.

Click to rate     Rating   22

What about the women who were pushing children and others out of the way to get to a lifeboat? Don't they get criticised? Oh, wait, they're female - they can do no wrong, of course. So, a few scared men (yes, men are allowed to be scared as well) lost all semblance of decency and just thought about themselves before others. This of course results in men as a whole being lambasted for not being "real men". Women are outraged when it's implied that they should act or behave in a certain way, and to go against that is "empowering". If a man doesn't like being told what to do or how to behave though, he's "not a real man", or a "chauvinist" or a "coward". The hypocrisy is staggering.

Click to rate     Rating   35

You know rather than this men verses woman rubbish being vented here (where does that get us exactly, other than feeling hatred towards other human beings?) how about we all agree to HELP EACH OTHER in this sort of situation. This would include helping those less capable then yourself before getting into the lifeboat. And it would mean ensuring as many people as possible got off the boat rather than just thinking of yourself and barging past people not able to stop you. Anyone who brushes weaker people aside to save themselves should be throughly ashamed - I dont care what gender you are or what pathetic excuse you use to justify such a cowardly action.

Click to rate     Rating   10

Women can't campaign for equality and then expect different treatment when it suits. It should be children and 'a parent' first so as not to (potentially) leave them orphans, and the frail and vulnerable next IMO. This should all be sorted before the ship sails in the event of having to abandon ship, so everyone knows. They have to do roll calls to ensure everyone's accounted for- this would just take it a stage further.

Click to rate     Rating   16

" Women & Children first" ?? I for one don't believe this is appropriate in today's world. Evacuation should be as "families" just the same as families with young children are allowed to board first on planes nowadays. What would also happen if an elderly couple were split up after say 40 yrs together jusy because the man had to stay behind ? It should be families into the lifeboats first based on their "complete" arrival at the muster stations, not wasting time for those who go back to the cabin's to pick up handbags/babyfood/jewellery etc.

Click to rate     Rating   17

We have had 40 years of devaluing males, in the media portraying men as bumbling idiots, and by the government imposing draconian ridiculous laws against men. Now things are changing, feminism is being pushed back, women are going to get an almighty shock. 40 years of "sexual equality" by the state imposing social engineering on us all. This ship sinking should serve as a BIG warning to all the feminists, your denigrating of men is coming to an end soon !

Click to rate     Rating   43

I would take Ann more seriously if she had risked certain death in order to save someone else. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 13:48...................& the world would take you more seriously if you bothered to read the article. Which is written by A N Wilson. He is a man.........Just saying........... - Tifa Lockheart, Midgar, 17/1/2012 14:02 Well noticed. However, the point still stands. I would like to see him accepting death for people he has never met before I take him seriously. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 14:09......Fair enough, point well made.

Click to rate     Rating   7

- ian martin, north yorkshire, 17/1/2012 14:53 Ian. Thank you. Google "Crimes Against Fathers" and consider joining. Tell all your mates. I wish Simon Heffer would sponsor an article about "Crimes Against Fathers". I intend to re-introduce the rule of law in two countries for the benefit of my fellow men. For this I have been HATED ON by women AND MEN for four years. Time to tell the ladies. On a sinking ship? You are ON YOUR OWN. And by the way? Don't expect us men to try and save YOUR children. YOU told us they are YOUR CHILDREN in the family courts. Don't be telling us how they are OUR children on a sinking ship. They are YOUR CHILDREN. YOU FIGURE IT OUT. We are going our own way. If we want OUR children we wont get them by you western women. We will risk our lives for OUR children. Something women NEVER DO. Titanic. 80% of women survived. They got in lifeboats in front of children. THAT is what women are like. They will demand men and children die so that they may live. FACT.

Click to rate     Rating   15

I would take Ann more seriously if she had risked certain death in order to save someone else. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 13:48...................& the world would take you more seriously if you bothered to read the article. Which is written by A N Wilson. He is a man.........Just saying........... - Tifa Lockheart, Midgar, 17/1/2012 14:02 Well noticed. However, the point still stands. I would like to see him accepting death for people he has never met before I take him seriously.

Click to rate     Rating   6

This has nothing to do with equality or chivalry - but is a reflection of modern lifeboat safety procedures. I attended a training course on lifeboat safety as part of my training for work on yachts and this was very clearly explained to me. A modern lifeboat is made of very lightweight materials - similar to a tent. When this is thrown in the sea it is utterly unstable and likely to tip over - especially in rough seas. However, a few large hefty crew members or male passengers going in first will set the boats deep in the water and provide the stability for others to get in (at greater comfort and lower risk).

Click to rate     Rating   13

"A man is more likely to be able to save themselves than a woman." David, Southend, 17/1/2012 13:35. Unsubstantiated rubbish! There are some areas of life where women have an advantage over men. For example, women are more buoyant than men are better equipped to ward off hypothermia because they have more body fat. Don't try telling me that's not a huge advantage when stranded out at sea. That means fat women should be the last ones put on the boat. Skinny men and bodybuilders should be the first to go on the boat.

Click to rate     Rating   29

I would take Ann more seriously if she had risked certain death in order to save someone else. - Keith, Swansea, 17/1/2012 13:48...................& the world would take you more seriously if you bothered to read the article. Which is written by A N Wilson. He is a man.........Just saying...........

Click to rate     Rating (0)

REmind me all you feminists...... EQUAL means? some more than others?

Click to rate     Rating   29

I will say that any man who feels he has the right to assault a woman is a coward and a bully. Women are still and always will be physically weaker than men. We cannot fight back so if we annoy you so much just walk away.- Lynn, Sittingbourne, 17/1/2012 14:42 So what do you call a woman who assaults a man DEMANDING the privilege of not being treated AS AN EQUAL so as to be protected? I call her a coward. You women claimed equality so being smaller and weaker is YOUR PROBLEM. Not ours. How about you women NOT be so obnoxious, not hit us, not steal from us in the first place eh? What makes you think you can claim EQUALITY and then be obnoxious, hit us, bite us, punch us, attack us with knives, steal from us and then say WE should walk away. By the way? Its hard to walk away when the woman doing these things is your WIFE. 5% vs 95%. Remember.

Click to rate     Rating   15

Women and children first - no. Children first - yes. They are smaller, weaker swimmers and wouldn't survive in cold water for as long. I would be horrified in adults pushed past small children to get on the boats.

Click to rate     Rating   26

It should be children, elderly and handicapped first. Nuff said.

Click to rate     Rating   14

"Women are still and always will be physically weaker than men. We cannot fight back so if we annoy you so much just walk away." I had no idea that the 7 foot women in the WNBA and 350 lb female weightlifters were physically weaker than the 5'5" 120lb men who ride horses at the Melbourne Cup... On that's right, you're speaking about men and women in general. Now if a man were to speak about men and women in general then he's be met with "not all women are like that, stop generalising!"

Click to rate     Rating   31

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c), London, there are a million fathers who know how you feel, we are TOTALLY with you, great words. Our number is growing every day, women just don't get it, with situations like this sinking, they will start to think.

Click to rate     Rating   17

I remember reading many years ago that women and children first was replaced by families first. The reasoning behind this was so that the family and the family's breadwinner were saved. No benefits in those days.

Click to rate     Rating   21

How can men push the mighty female out of the way? Women possess "Girl Power" they can over power any man with ease. Please don't patronise women by thinking they are weak, they are not. They are strong, real strong, they don't need the government and it's agencies to protect them at all. Nope. Women are strong and independent and can survive without any special consideration given to them. And if they can't? Well then they simply weren't "woman" enough to survive.

Click to rate     Rating   26

Why do so many vicious women come on here to libel men? All they're capable of doing is making stupid assumptions about the men who discuss women's treatment of men. If that's their only retort these women can come up with then it suggests the men are onto something and have struck a nerve.

Click to rate     Rating   14

"then women and children, who tend to be smaller and weaker" - Elisabeth, Chicago, USA, 17/1/2012 2:35 Elisabeth. YOU WOMEN claimed "equality" not us men. So it is YOUR problem if you happen to be smaller and weaker. MEN do not give special privilege to other MEN who are smaller and weaker. A fully healthy man who is 160 to 170cm will NEVER ask a fully healthy and fit man who is 180-200cm for a special privilege. Indeed the smaller man may have to work out harder and learn more skills to make the grade. Consider basketball or NFL football. You think the big guys cut the small guys slack just because they are smaller and weaker? On an oil rig you think a smaller man gets cut slack for being smaller? No. When I was about 14 (34 years ago) the girls would say "when we grow up we are going to be equal to men". Even then I asked "Are you stupid? Women have it MUCH better than me. Why would you give up those privileges?" They called me an MCP. Now you are seeing the result.



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New Post
 1/19/2012 3:17 AM
 
Here is a copy of the letter I sent to the editors of the Daily Mail:

Dear Mail Online editors and managers

Interesting how in a "free society", you can dare to engage in censorship, the likes of which we do not even see in places like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, or Iran. England is really advanced in it's freedom and liberty. (sarcasm)

Peter Nolan was treating women EXACTLY how they DEMANDED to be treated. Western women have DEMANDED that us men treat them EXACTLY like men. Haven't you ever heard of feminism?

You may say "He was promoting violence". Well, if that argument is relevant, then why do you allow women to openly talk about VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN and to even allow women to JOKE about it?

Women beating up men is funny now? Women committing violent acts against men is funny now?

How funny would western women think it is if we men started making jokes about beating them up, or cutting off their clitoris? I doubt they would think that is very funny. And yet that is EXACTLY what they do to us men, and yet they claim equality?

Are you people such idiots that you can't see the BLATANT HYPOCRISY of western women?

Anyway, I am done here. I've wasted enough time writing to sexist pig man-haters like yourselves.

Enjoy your slavery. Don't come whining to me when your wife cuts your dick off.

Sincerely,
John Rambo
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